Ep. 197 Escaping the 9 to 5 with Chloe Temple

Chloe Temple

In this week’s podcast, Anna is speaking to Chloe Temple in the latest in her Escaping the 9 to 5 series.

Chloe left her corporate dream job to support more corporate professionals to find fulfilment and discover their unique leadership blueprint. She is the founder of popp, a leadership coach and facilitator who helps leaders – current and aspiring – dive into their unique potential so they can thrive as the leaders we wish we had.

Escaping the 9 to 5 with Chloe Temple

chloe-templeChloe Temple, is the founder of popp, a Leadership Coach and Facilitator. She helps high leaders (current & aspiring) dive into their unique potential so they can thrive as the leaders we wish we had.

In 2021 she left my corporate dream job; leading a thriving team, spearheading positive change in culture, wellbeing, business & people performance because she wanted to support many more corporate professionals to find fulfilment across their lives. She built popp to be a support crew for leaders. Elite athletes have them. Why shouldn’t we?

You can connect with Chloe on her website, Instagram, LinkedIn and YouTube.

*Resources mentioned during the episode*

The Outsiders Business Incubator – A year-long business incubator for experienced corporate professionals who want to translate their skills and passions into a profitable and fulfilling business. onestepoutside.com/9to5

Your Leadership Blueprint

Anna Lundberg  

Hello, everybody and welcome back to this month Escaping the 9 to 5 interview. I’m here with Chloe Temple. Now Chloe, I now forget how we met, I imagine somehow in the LinkedIn world, I believe. I don’t know if you have better memory than I do. But nonetheless, really happy to have you heard today talking about your journey. So why don’t you start by telling us what you were doing before and what you’re doing today?

Chloe Temple  

I think LinkedIn is an amazing, amazing tool. I think it probably was through LinkedIn, but lots of different platforms. So in terms of before, I guess my background is retail and FMCG. So almost a decade buying so a lot of or buying and Category Management, which is quite fun. Managing your own kind of p&l your own area, I felt a little bit like managing your own little business. And then I’m shifted into FMCG supplier side. And the last role that I did there before shifting into what I’m doing now is heading up the category spare category strategy team for a big pharmaceutical company called rackets which manages brands like Nurofen Durex. Dettol, which was fine during the pandemic, as you can imagine. Yeah, and then in terms of now, so I founded pop about just over a year ago. And I now coach facilitates, essentially to help people, both businesses and individuals dive into what I call their pool of potential through both well being and purpose. And so it looks like from a and you have a dual perspective, that’s support that I’ve built a kind of program around strategic life design, helping people understand what their Why is and build a life by design, essentially, based on who they actually are. And then from a corporate or from a business perspective, I help teams really understand what wellbeing means to them as individuals, and the develop their their own, build their own well being. There’s a huge gap with in that space, in which we can talk to in terms of people doing it particularly well. Wellbeing is massive, massive scope. And so people are so different, and it means different things to different people. So I’ve developed some tools that enable people to understand that for themselves in kind of short workshop series. And so that is what is lighting me up at the moment.

Anna Lundberg  

Love it, and it lights me up to there’s so much overlap and so many synergies with work that I’ve been doing too. And I love how you said people that because I think we obsess about is it b2c b2b Who’s immediate and so on. But you’re right businesses ultimately are people as well. So that’s, that’s the you’re working with? And how did you come up with the idea? Do you have a super clear idea? When you left your job, I’m going to create pop, and I’m going to have this strategy and so on, or talk us through the actual transition?

Chloe Temple  

Yeah, I mean, it’s, it’s funny, because it’s probably not the traditional route of leaving the nine to five, or I wasn’t running from anything. I actually was in my dream job that I had created managing a team leading a team that I absolutely loved the work that we’re doing, I loved who I was working with, and but during the pandemic was hit by essentially, it felt like a lightning bolt moment. I was hit by an idea. And I mean, I literally remember exactly where I was, and I spent, how it happened. And I spent the next three days, head down my poor partner, we were away. We got away with our dog in nature, and it was lovely. But I spent the next three days literally, completely, in engrossed in writing, essentially a 1025 year plan for what, what what cop is growing into? So yeah, it was it was an exciting, exciting moment, and then felt like something I couldn’t not do or couldn’t not follow, rather than I had to, I don’t feel that any way of kind of being forced out. And I tried to do both at the same time, for a little bit. But yeah, eventually cut the string. But at the bridge is people talk about. And yeah, that’s, that’s my full focus.

Anna Lundberg  

I love that story. Because we had quite a controversial moments in our relationship with my partner when we were on holiday. And he’d still talks about now I was sort of working the whole time. And it was the same, I was so excited and lively, but you know, had this vision, and he’d never come across somebody who liked their work so much, you’re supposed to rest on holiday, and so on, which is also important, we can talk about that. But I love it when you have an idea like that that’s so compelling. And because I talked about the reasons why you leave the nine to five from from the push perspective, as he said, maybe toxic work culture and so on, which you didn’t have. But then there’s also the pool, which I think we maybe don’t talk enough about that strategic life design, which in fact, you’re helping people do now as well. out, which is so important to draw you towards something positive. And in a way, it’s almost harder to leave when you’re in your dream job than it is to leave something which which has many more disadvantages. You may know that this podcast is called reimagining success. And I talk about defining success. So do you think your definition of success has evolved? Or do you think you’re just addressing it in a different way?

Chloe Temple  

Oh, for sure. So, I mean, my definition of success has evolved over my life, if that makes sense. And the business has been one component of that. My background, and partly why I’m so passionate about what I do now is, I experienced a decade of depression and anxiety. And it was a really, really tough time. There’s years and years within that period that I genuinely don’t remember, because they were just so painful, that I think my brain has been kind to me and has tried to kind of blanket over it. Yeah. And because it had come from that one of the things that made me feel better, that coping mechanism, let’s say, was actually working. And I became obsessed and addicted in the same way that some people are with drugs or anything like alcohol, I was addicted to work, because it gave me some sort of level of validation or feeling that I was enough or Yes, so many things were reinforcing that obsession, almost with work, work, work, work, work, work, work. And there are often some kind of misconstrued definitions of what success looks like in that context. And for me, it was around promotions and you know, growing and the next thing and the challenge and all of that I was constantly challenging myself to grow and developing, move on to the next challenge. And and so those measures of success for me, were, am I being promoted? Have I got a pay rise, those sorts of things. And I remember, when I, the day that I finally got that dream job that I described, at the beginning, and I’d pitched the idea had been a kind of six month process of pitching into the business to, to build this team that didn’t exist. And I got to create it from scratch. And it had been a six month process until I got that. Yes. So I remember coming home, when it was kind of finally announced, and it was all out there. And my sister partner was celebrating with some bubbles. And I was like, that’s how we celebrate. And I remember thinking, like, Why do I feel so rubbish? I’ve just got my dream job. I’m living by the beach in Australia. And why? Why do I feel like this? Like, what’s what’s what’s missing. And I think that was the realization for me that success was never an external thing. It it’s got to come from within. And that is there is never going to be whether or not you’re starting a business, or there’s nothing external to me that’s ever going to enough not sustain happiness, you might feel good for, you know, a day, a week, a year, if you’re lucky that something has happened. But it doesn’t last. So that my realisation and around, actually the more interesting thing to find. And the more interesting definition of success for me is around fulfillment. And if I’m living as long as I’m living in line of with my purpose, which I’ve now spent lots of time finding that success.

Anna Lundberg  

And how are you finding? I don’t know what you Sorry, I didn’t need lagging a little bit, I was gonna say, how are you finding, living that now in your own business, because I found and I find this very interesting that we’ve kind of brought it with us to some extent, I have a lot of clients, you know, we can kind of demonize the nine to five, and that achievement and the promotion. So and yet we recreate those same structures, and it’s easy to get sucked into, we have to be the best selling author on Amazon. And we have to have 10,000 Instagram followers and all these things. So are you finding that a challenge that it’s not just that okay, now I’m going to be fulfilled and that’s it, but it’s actually the ongoing reinforcing that shift in mindset and the different definition that you’ve created for yourself.

Chloe Temple  

Yeah, isn’t that you wake up one day and everything’s changed for you that that it’s an evolution I think that’s the that’s exciting thing about life is that we get to evolve and we get to become into the people that we’re growing into. So there is a dip and we’ve talked about it before in terms of not those things that you’re those, those baggage that baggage will just follow you into different guys unless you actually deal with the thing the repeated And pattern is going to show up in a different way. And so for me, it’s just that awareness of when I go too far into doo doo doo doo doo, I’m not a human doing I’m a human being. And when I sent it back to understanding, no, it’s a, it’s like well being and put yourself, you know, calm and slow down. That’s what resent there’s me. So it looks very different now. In that my one of my biggest challenges is that work doesn’t feel like work. For me, I actually think of it as play and mission. And I love it, and I enjoy it. And if anything, I struggle more with stopping because I’m enjoying it. And so I’ve got a lot of structures. From that I have to build in things that support me to take that time off, for instance, I’m taking quest off, which is almost unheard of, to try and create that. I don’t like the word balance to try and create that space, to make sure that I’m not just in the do all the time, I get to be in the B.

Anna Lundberg  

Not interesting and ironic that we love it so much. And then it’s so hard. And I felt like early on, I had that almost excuse and I see it celebrated on Instagram, and I love my work so much that I don’t need to take time off. And I think we’re missing a trick there. Because of course there is however important your mission and the work and however fulfilling and say what there is still so as you say so many other aspects to you as a human being your relationships, your interests, and I’m so important to have that time off as well. So what are the structures you took? When taking some time off? What else do you do in terms of maybe your daily routine? Or having supportive people around you? How do you develop the resilience, I guess you need to keep going.

Chloe Temple  

Um, the biggest thing that helps me is the support group, like, my partner is believable, because he’s one so patient, that, I mean, he’s a teacher, so he will get home really early. And he has structures within his work where he’s off. And you’ll know this as a mom, you know, the kids appear like, you know, kids feel like they’re always on holiday, or he feels like he’s always on holiday. So there’s the structures that really support him. And I could look at that as oh my gosh, you’re tearing me away from the things that I am loving love to do, and you want to, you know, you want to go and travel Europe, now we’re here, I’m not in Australia. Or I can look at it as oh my gosh, thank you so much. Because you’re supporting me and encouraging me to, to look at a different ways of doing things. So yeah, I have a lot of gratitude for both the space that he gives me to, like, leave, you know, to lean in when I’m in a period of flow and just go with it. But also the know, let’s go take the dog for all. And those sorts of things from from my perspective, it’s really around making sure that I meditate first thing in the morning without fail. Because that really grounds me small things like making sure I had a shower, because you can go through a whole day without showering, you know, like making sure I have a shower at the beginning of the day, it sets you up for success. So yes, small things can actually make a really big difference. It’s just knowing yourself and what’s going to work for you or for me.

Anna Lundberg  

And then from a sort of bigger picture perspective, more strategic when it comes to your business and your business model. You mentioned a little bit about who you work with. But can you tell us more how have you set your business up so that also you don’t have to work late into the nights and weekends and over August’s and so on. So who you’re working with and what kind of services you’re offering at the moment.

Chloe Temple  

Yeah, the business model pieces is a really interesting one. I spent the first nine months of from that moment of lightning bolt moment to actually leaving all in conceptual, this is the business model that we’re gonna have. And this is gonna target and it’s going to be b2c and I’m going to do it in this way and they’ll allow the that has evolved so much from doing I think you learn so much more by actually taking action and just listening into actually I really was energized by running that workshop. And that’s that’s essentially how I started moving or adding into what I do. The b2b piece was I missed you know, I love teams, my background. My background is so aligned and I feel so much and also my my b2c customer is all the people I worked with, from a VC perspective, they’re in corporate, they’re in businesses. So it’s mad to think that I didn’t, I had, for me at that moment that I felt like I had to choose, but I didn’t. So in terms of the structure, my my business model, now I work with both BC and BC, and I love the synergies of both. Because it also gives you a pipeline into potential people that you can support and help. They might not be in a place that they want, you know, they’re ready right now. But two years down the line, who knows, and they come back in terms of full circle and say, Actually, I really want to know what, what my personal purpose is, etc. So I guess my piece around business model is is it is an iteration and how it’s currently formed, I don’t necessarily believe that it will always look like it is now. Someone says something along the lines of like, fall in love with the customer, not the product. And I may fall in love with the problem essentially, in the customer, what they’re, they’re serving, rather than how you go about doing it. So I’m not, I’m not in bed, essentially, with the business model as it’s currently structured. If there’s a better way of doing it, then I’ll explore that. But yeah, it’s working at the moment. Yeah, amazing. Now, that’s

Anna Lundberg  

a powerful way of thinking about it. Because people tend to come and say, Oh, but should it be 12 weeks? Or six weeks? And should it be group or individual? And should it be in person and as you say, almost doesn’t matter. It could be any of those, in fact, all of them, but think about who you’re serving? What would help them and above all, and I think you’re on the same lines, but many people forget that piece, what would you enjoy? What would make you come alive as well, because that’s just as important. And as he said, I’m such a fan of visions and strategies, but you’ll never know until you actually bring it to life and actually put it out into the world. So there’s an element that you do need a planning, but ultimately, you just kind of have to go out into the world. And we’ll see where it takes you. Sure. And what about you mentioned, obviously, a lot of people feel a bit lonely when they’re working from home. But especially, of course, the last couple of years have been put at you challenging. So I love that you’re thinking of how you can design your work to still work with teams. And so what about the marketing piece? Because again, a lot of people say to me, oh, and I don’t want to be on Facebook, and all who to feel so icky, selling myself and so on. So how are you feeling about going out there? With your mission? Your again, we met on LinkedIn. So how do you feel about putting yourself out there? As they say, with this new mantle, I suppose of pop and you’re in business and your mission?

Chloe Temple  

Yeah, I think the way that you look at it changes the way that I feel about all the way I look about it changes the way that I feel about it. I used to feel very achy around around it and very uncomfortable about self promotion, it felt very, oh, no, it’s not about me, and it’s not about me, it’s all about them. And it was very out of comfort zone. And I’ve never wanted to be a center of attention. But there’s an element of you just have to get over yourself. And if you really want to help someone, then you can’t help people, if they’re not aware of you, you know, and you can’t help people, if they don’t know that there’s a chance that they are experiencing a problem. So it was sort of get out of your own way, and get out of their way. In terms I’m all about impact. So I’m all about helping people and if I’m standing in a way, in the way of helping them by not raising awareness that I’ve got, you know, value to give them and yeah, that that’s, that’s a challenge in terms of how I go about doing that I’ve had different success or different enjoyment of different marketing models, like I invested enormous amount of time and energy and emotional energy into Instagram. And I really did, you know, followed all of the things that people say you should do, like showing up every day and posting and all this I tried it all and it was really tough. And then I also started to the more it wasn’t felt like it wasn’t working, the more I learned to try and make it fix it and make it work. And then suddenly I realized, you know what, if it’s not working just step back. What is the worst that can happen? Um, you know, no one’s gonna know nothing’s gonna fall over if you don’t show up on Instagram every single day. And my mental health having the background that I’ve had is my number one priority. I started becoming aware that it was impacting my mental health and so I said, this No, that’s not I didn’t go out on an Instagram and say, oh my gosh, this is my new plan, I’m not going to show up for you. It was just more ice steps back, like quietly from doing it being so visible there. LinkedIn, though I love, like, I get to meet so many people, it’s not perfect, but I get to meet people, like you build connections. Add value. And yeah, I think the platform is fantastic for that. It’s something actually that I would recommend to anyone whether or not they’re ever considering leaving a company or you know, starting a business or anything, is to start building get over the whole, achy networking is, or why should I add that person? They’re gonna think I’m weird. Get over that, because people are the lifeblood of, of the bat, you know, that’s why we’re here. We’re social animals. And if you can use some of the social media platforms for good, then why not, and it’s something I wish I had. I don’t have regrets, but it’s something I wished that I had done earlier. And I continue to invest lots of time and energy into it. Because, you know, it’s, it’s rewarding, not only finding potential clients and being feel like I’m helping, but also on a personal level, not feeling so lonely. Because, as you know, because we’re in a mentoring group together. And I share quite openly, I’ve really struggled with loneliness, like that’s been the biggest unexpected impact of shifting was, it’s been a quite a lonely journey. And what I realized recently was, you know, there’s five, essentially five people that people need in our life, we need coaches, we need mentors, we need friends, we need cheerleaders. But we also need peers. And my peer group suddenly was went down to zero in the second as soon as I left, because they’re, they’re not nest, though I didn’t have that access to the people who are doing similar things on their own journey. So I really consciously been building that up. And that has been really, really, really valuable for for me. So LinkedIn has gone more than just the marketing tool, more from the support group or helping me create my own support group. Like I think we all should do.

 

Anna Lundberg  

Yeah, no, I agree. And as you said, even if you’re not necessarily thinking about changing jobs, and starting businesses, so powerful to combat loneliness, to engage to learn, I love what they’re doing. Absolutely. People are, it’s funny, people get quite sort of sensitive at all LinkedIn is becoming like Facebook, and then others do love Instagram and get on really well with it. So again, it’s about finding what works for you, right? And I love that you’re able to then lean back. And actually the world didn’t end just because he didn’t post every day on Instagram, which is always good to remember. But it’s tough as well, because leaning in is fantastic. That would almost be the right strategy to do. So you know, you lean in, you try even harder. And that decision as to when you stop or take a break or lean back is quite tricky one because we always I do talk about persisting and consistency and so on. So it’s a difficult balance there. And speaking of balance, I know you said you didn’t love the word balance, which I don’t either, but coming then to go flexible work life integration. Tell me more what is it you don’t like about balance? And how are you designing your work life integration to work for you?

Chloe Temple  

Yeah. Well work life balance, I don’t like as a concept. One because it puts work before life, which I already shared that that that triggers some kind of personal stuff around what I had been doing some patterns of behavior, though, early earlier on in my life that had been not not so healthy for me. So life work I prefer there’s also a kind of, is there a duality does there need to be a duality between the two thing is your work can do work, not be part of life. So I have mental challenges there. And then the word balance, oh my goodness, it’s just it’s so weird. It’s almost setting you up for failure. Like it’s like, almost like you take one jigsaw piece out, and everything’s out balanced. And then that’s, that’s terrible. For me, I mean, it’s never going to be global, but I prefer a concept of like light life work, fill, meaning kind of fulfillment, and just really creating what that looks like for you and filling yourself up in your life in your work with with whatever that feel looks like for you or it could be fit or integration. It I’m not prescriptive on the word. It’s more around the meaning that it is and I’ve talked a little bit about some of the things already that I do to support me to find the right fill of work in life. And having a support crew around has been really, really valuable creating those boundaries and creating time and space and has been, yeah, has really, really helped. But I think it’s, it’s critical, and there’s so many beliefs. In so many release of, even within corporate, I work with a lot of people who will come to me thinking that they want to leave jobs, or, you know, to go to a different company, or they talk about toxic work environments, and they talk about, you know, that they can’t manage it all. And actually, there’s a lot of beliefs that they’re holding around what could be true for them. I know when I was, when pop had arrived into my head, as an idea, like a lightning bolt, and I came back and I was trying to navigate both at the same time, I had built lots of beliefs around could die. I was looking at parents, or carers and thinking, Oh, how lucky are they that they can take parental leave, you know that a baby is born and they’re able to, to request kind of leave or, or they’re able to go into a kind of for, you know, four days a week, three days a week, and I had lots of beliefs around a hill, that’s not possible for me. And then suddenly, I thought, why why is that not possible? Why can’t that be true? And ended up asking the business for to go down to a four day week, which ended up being a three day week, and the businesses were unbelievably supportive. But I’m just of the belief that if you don’t ask you don’t get as Gandhi quote, or Gandhi, quote, I think, but it’s for you to work out what that looks like, for you. Because if, for instance, my boss had come to me and said, Chloe, I think, you know, would you like to go down to a three day week? I would have been like, oh, my gosh, he thinks I’m doing a rubbish job. You know, am I not valuable for those extra two days, whereas actually, that was probably what I needed. And it was incredibly helpful to give me balance, I’m doing quotes, air quotes, around the word balance, he’s an hour don’t like it. But if he couldn’t give that for me, you know, he couldn’t tell me what I needed. I needed to ask for it and help him understand. So I think there’s opportunities for all of us to actually understand well, what’s going to help us enjoy and get the most out of whether or not we’re in our life, or whether or not we’re in our work or mission, or? Yeah, I could talk about that all day.

Anna Lundberg  

Yeah, absolutely. I’m ready here. I know. I’d love to and we’d have a whole separate session on that. So so much to pick up on now. I suppose. If there’s one piece of advice I could give to someone perhaps, who like you has this amazing idea that they just feel drawn to you. But perhaps they’re a little bit nervous about pursuing it? Or who doesn’t feel that they have that life work? feel at the moment, based on and I know, you have a lot of, yeah, valuable exercise and things to do. But what’s the first step that people can take? If they’re a bit worried about taking a bigger leap? What how could they start moving in that direction?

Chloe Temple  

I think, for me, the foundation of everything is awareness is the more that you understand about yourself, and what you want the three questions, I think, we will must ask, who am I? What do I want? And how am I going to get there? So many of us will just jump to there? How am I going to get there? Or promotion or whatever it is? They they they avoid the earlier questions which are harder, you know, why a big? You know, big question, and you’re not necessarily going to come up with a fully formed answer. But the more that you we know about ourselves, the more that we’re able to set ourselves up for quotation marks success, we’re able to design our lives or our careers or you know, that align with what we look like our natural best. So what I recommend is to build your awareness of yourself and to trial and test things to see what’s going to be working for you. It’s unreasonable to suddenly think that we’re going to know what we want unless we try it. And that can be really, really small scale, it can be thinking or actually, it might, you know, I might perform better or I might feel better in the rest of the day. If I go for a run in the middle of the day. That might not work. That’s just one strategy. If you don’t try it, if you don’t ask then then you’re never going to know and it’s just around around removing those beliefs, and then also removing or finding the courage to ask the question, like developing that courage. I mean, I’ve got a resource, actually, that can be helpful on my website, which is for example.com, forward slash resources, which is called like a pitch pitch like a pitch like a pro, I think it’s the force free resource that people can can download. And that’s really about supporting people to have those conversations. What do you want? You know, is it coaching that you want? Is it mentoring? Is it a four day week? Is it you want to, you know, have the middle of the day for you to go for a run, some people find that those conversations really difficult to have. And so that resource I put together to help people. Actually, I’ve heard so many pictures in my life. For me for being a buyer. I was like, Okay, right, bring that all together into one that enables you to get clear on what you want, but also the other party.

Anna Lundberg  

Yeah, because we really do hold ourselves back, I say the same that we put the horse before the water, and we can figure out how we can get the help, we can clarify that. But if we don’t even know what we want. And you know, there’s no point in saying, oh, that’s never going to work. Because we don’t even know if that’s something want to pursue and also projecting the know on to someone else, I always think let them say no. And then you can make the choice to leave that employer or change something, but at least ask the question. And in order to ask the question, of course, you need to know what that question isn’t what, what it is. But I suppose in a way, we’re lazy, I don’t want to be judgy. But you know, we’re not even we’re sort of it’s easier to blame circumstances and other people and all my job and my boss and so on. Whereas actually, as you say, the hard work, but also the exciting and empowering work is to ask ourselves, who are we what do we want? What do I want? And that is hard work. But it’s so exciting. And it opens so many possibilities that opportunities for us?

Chloe Temple  

Yeah, yeah. And I think it’s also not only lazy laziness, like, it’s around fear, like we’re afraid to kind of unpick what that looks like. So. Yeah, I have a lot of people come and say, I want to be fearless. And I say to them, it’s not about eradicating fears. It’s around, like, how do we work and lean into that, and you talked about that earlier, but leaning into that, that discomfort, because the more that we do that, the more our comfort zone grows, and then we start to fear less rather than be fearless. Yeah.

Anna Lundberg  

And one of the metaphors and you’ve probably come across the tea. But you know, when we talk about the metamorphosis of the butterfly, you always hear about, oh, it goes to sleep and little cocoon, and it wakes up and it’s a butterfly. And then years ago, I came across that actually, it’s just really painful, disgusting process of breaking down into motion protein soup, and then gradually reconstituting itself and so on, which I find just so fascinating, because you do, you’re right, it’s rude of me to say that we’re lazy, because it is a fear. And it’s well justified because we’re shaking the very foundations of our identity. And especially in our society, where our identity is so heavily linked to our job as well changing and even beginning to ask these questions can really create a very shaky foundation for ourselves. And also, by implication, the people around us so so it’s not to be, I don’t mean to in any way, undermine or sort of whatever the word is, I’m trying to find and make it sound super simple. But I love that you said, you know, even just going for a run at lunchtime, or just changing your habits in some small way to sort of question if there is a different way you can do things. So I love that.

Chloe Temple  

Yeah, yeah, that that that analogy is amazing in the sense that also, when you cut if you cut the, if you release the butterfly from the cocoon by cutting it, if someone else was to externally do that, they that butterfly doesn’t survive. We have to. Yeah, we expect that things are supposed to not be painful, but actually the pain, like a decade of depression 15% of my life, if I lived ad, I wouldn’t take back a moment of that, because that pain has shaped me into who I am. And yes, I would love love to make people’s lives better and less painful for less duration. But it is also serving us if we’re it’s working for us. And so that struggle is for something I love that analogy, or metaphor. I’m glad you brought it up.

Anna Lundberg  

So what’s next for you? What are you excited about now coming up in the next stage of your business?

Chloe Temple  

So I am leaning much more into supporting businesses around well being workshops. We were mentioning earlier around like really listening into where are you what gives you energy and that gives me so much energy and the feedback that I’ve had from them all has been unbelievable. And I think wellbeing is so pivotal. Yes, it’s a bit of a bulky buzzword at the moment but our lives completely shift if we really lean in and tap into and understand what well being and that’s that I was talking about foundation. But what wellbeing means for us. So lots around that. And I’m also writing a book that brings essentially that IP, and all the lessons that I’ve learned along the way, as well as I’m a big reader like you. And so a lot of the wisdom that has come from the many mentors that I’ve had from authors bringing that to life through through a book. So those two things are keeping me very busy at the moment.

Anna Lundberg  

Very busy, but very exciting, too. And yes, I mean, I think when this episode comes out, if you’re listening, there is an episode on creating or an IP for a few weeks ago. So that’s a really important one, because it’s such a great way to crystallize your thinking to establish expertise to give yourself all that rich content. And well being Yes, I’m interested in the I’m leaning into that, too, I think coming from the corporate world. And maybe as you said, what you call more the traditional reasons for leaving to be honest, I loved my work, and so on to I certainly wasn’t in my dream job, but I didn’t have any sort of horrible place to exit from. But nonetheless, I rebelled against that corporate world and sort of b2b then can be a bit sort of, you’re a bit resistant or when I want to work with individuals, but I love the things you’ve talked about in terms of you know, it is individuals, ultimately, if that’s what gives you energy in that context, I think that’s something it’s important people to recognize if they’re feeling that they can’t do that, because there are ways to make it work for you as well. And so you mentioned your website there, where remind us where can we find you? Where’s the best place perhaps on LinkedIn that we talked about? But how can we find out more about?

Chloe Temple  

Yeah, my LinkedIn, Chloe temple, you’ll find me chloetemple.com. I also say popprovides.com is the business as well. And you can find me on Instagram. I’m still there @popprovides. But yeah, or just shoot shoot me an email. I’m sure that you’ll leave the details of the show notes.

Anna Lundberg  

Yeah, will do. Chloe has been such a pleasure. And also for me to hear more. It’s always selfishly my my favourite part of these interviews is hearing more and learning as well. So thank you so much for your time and your vulnerability and sharing your story and best of luck, and I look forward to working with you as well in the coming months.

Chloe Temple  

Thank you so much.

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