Ep. 206 Pivotal moments with Jo Jackson

In this week’s episode, Anna is speaking to Jo Jackson in the latest episode in her Escaping the 9 to 5 series.

Escaping the 9 to 5 with Jo Jackson

Jo had all the trappings of success as a Commercial Director working on some of the world’s biggest brands, married, and living in a beautiful home. Today, she is a Life and Leadership Coach, founder of Pivotal Moments, empowering driven professionals who feel stuck to unlock their self-worth, realise their potential, and create a fulfilling life on their terms.

jo-jackson-profileWith 15 years of commercial, strategy and people leadership experience, working with the UK’s biggest retailers on some of the world’s biggest brands, Jo brings a wealth of knowledge and real life, hands on experience to the world of personal development.

Prior to her career pivot into coaching (having experienced her own enlightening coaching experience), Jo was a Commercial Director; leading teams across multiple multinational organisations including Mars Inc, Walgreens Boots Aliiance and Johnson & Johnson. Jo specialised in the creation of high performing teams, building and leveraging productive customer relationships and in the art of selling and negotiation. Jo was recognised as a high performing leader and nominated for global awards for her focus on people and development.

Jo is now trained as an Executive Coach and has built comprehensive experience working with individuals across multiple sectors and from varied backgrounds. Her specialism is executive, career, leadership and business coaching, drawing upon her extensive personal experience in the commercial and corporate worlds.

Jo’s purpose is to help others to realise their potential and find their route to a happy, fulfilled life, on their own terms.

Coaching with Jo is centred in authenticity, empathy, warmth, trust and appropriate challenge. She creates a safe environment, enabling exploratory conversations and thought-provoking discussion. This allows the coachee to experience the transformational benefits of this impactful development experience. Jo has a strong focus on action orientation and possibility thinking which empower the coachee to choose their next steps and embark on them with confidence.

Jo fundamentally believes that we have everything we need to thrive and succeed inside of us. Through active and curious listening and by using powerful questions, which shine a light on areas which may have been overlooked, Jo will help you unlock your potential, find your inner voice and your route to fulfilment, in the way you choose is right for you.

You can connect with Jo on her Website, LinkedIn and Instagram.

*Resources mentioned during the episode*

The Outsiders Business Incubator – A year-long business incubator for experienced corporate professionals who want to translate their skills and passions into a profitable and fulfilling business. onestepoutside.com/9to5

Pivotal moments

Anna Lundberg  

Okay, hello, everybody. And welcome back to the latest Escaping the 9 to 5 interview. And I’m here with somebody whose story is very familiar to me, and I’m sure familiar to many of you as well. So looking forward to digging into her transition, and what she’s building for herself now outside of the 9 to 5. So I’m here with Jo Jackson. Welcome, Jo.


Jo Jackson  

Hi, Anna. Great to be here. Thanks so much for coming on to your podcast today.


Anna Lundberg  

Thank you, thank you in advance for your time and your openness and sharing your story is so valuable for people and always selfishly really enjoy these myself as well. So I’m really grateful to you. So why didn’t you tell us already? What were you doing before? And what are you doing that?


Jo Jackson  

Yeah, of course, no problem at all. So yeah, I started my career. So they’ve spent the last 15 years of my career very muchJo Jackson - online use -108 in the corporate world. So focusing in on the commercial side of all things corporate. So working for big brands, the likes of Mars likes Johnson and Johnson, most recently, as well in boots, and Kraft Foods, really launching delivering great commercial plans, working with some of the biggest retailers in the UK to deliver those commercial kind of propositions. So very much in that relationship management and building great, great deliveries, great activations in store, those sorts of things. And I’ve worked up through the ranks into the sort of commercial director type role. So leading teams, you know, landing big negotiations, really very much in that space of owning great relationships with customers in a way that’s deliver sort of mutual value. So to say, sort of started my career way back when So 15 years ago, as a graduate, went through the different program learn so much as I was going through my career, and then most recently was digital director at Mars. And then yeah, that’s what I’m doing now. So as of August of last year, I pivoted my career. So I left the big world of corporate, and I’ve taken the opportunity to restart or set up my own business pivotal moments as an executive coach. So there are two elements of my business. One is my executive coaching my one to one executive coaching. And then I also do some associate work where I support an organization to facilitate sales and negotiation training, which is obviously very much based on my personal experience, and, you know, using my wheelhouse, if you like in terms of what I’ve learned over the years, and supporting other people to deliver great results for themselves. So a bit of a change. But actually, yeah, really looking forward to sort of sharing with you a little bit about the reasons why that happened, and how it’s going.


Anna Lundberg  

And with a  business name like that, pivotal moments, you have to tell us what was the pivotal moment for you?


Jo Jackson  

Yeah, absolutely. So pivotal moments, the name of my business actually came about because those were the words that I was using when I was going through my own pivotal moment. So it’s really interesting, I hadn’t realized that they were the words I was using until I spoke to my coach, and she was like, hold on a second. Jo, do you realize this, I was like, Oh, my God, that’s my business name. Thank you. That’s perfect. So it’s one of those massive aha moments. I was like, okay, brilliant. Let’s go with that. So my pivotal moment. Yeah, absolutely, I suppose are two things that kind of came together, probably late 2019, early 2020. And it was very much a space of my professional and personal lives, really, sort of everything happened at the same time. And I really wanted to sort of change things up. So from a sort of professional life point of view, as I mentioned, I climbed a ladder through various big multinational organizations, which was some amazing businesses, some amazing people. And, you know, I’ve really got to a place that I probably never thought I was going to get to. So I was really proud of kind of the progression that I delivered. And, you know, the success that I’d achieved, but I kind of started looking at, okay, well, what’s next, you know, from, if I was to want to progress further, I might have had to, for example, relocate. Actually, I’m a real home bird, I really wanted to make sure that I was staying in the local area with my family and friends didn’t want to be moving to, you know, Zurich, or wherever it might have been. But also, I was thinking actually, you know what, I don’t sense that that those big the roles those you know, big, heavy hitting sort of C suite type roles would give me the same level of mojo that I was getting previously a more junior career. I was kind of looking up, you know, these next potential roles thinking, Ah, there’s something about that, that doesn’t sit right. You know, am I okay with maybe either relocating or being away from home loads, I’m okay with the extra pressure with, you know, the extra anxiety maybe that that will come with those sorts of roles. And I’m thinking actually, something doesn’t really fit as far as that goes. And then the other thing that’s going on professionally was also there were a lot of changes sort of structural changes going on in the business. So where I’d always been, and I don’t like even saying this feels really uncomfortable, but where I’d always been classed as a high achiever, you know, classed as top talent in the organization, actually, my trajectory was slowing. So we’re going really fast out of blocks coming, you know, graduate scheme all the way through classes, top talent or way through, you know, 12-13 years in, naturally, your progression slows. So actually, that starts to become a little bit of an uncomfortable place for me, because one of my biggest values is around achievement. And I didn’t feel like I was achieving as much because I didn’t have the sort of the visibility of those achievements as much as I had in my more junior career. So that started to knock my confidence. They also say, as you become a leader, it becomes more vulnerable, more lonely, and that makes you feel more vulnerable. And I definitely felt that is where you go from having a peer group of people who are very like minded, you can share ideas, you can have those little rants, moans, you know, coffee, coffee, coffee, machine chats to share your thoughts and feelings, actually, those become fewer and further between, because you’re leading teams now, you know, you’re demonstrating what’s expected, you, you know, you have to hold some confidences and those sorts of things. So actually, I felt like, I’d lost a sense of me in that, because I didn’t have that sense of kind of team, teamwork and community around me as much.


Jo Jackson  

And then there were some restructures, there were some changes, you know, business became even more difficult, you know, there are some big challenges out there in the FMCG, fast moving consumer goods marketplace, and it was all feeling quite challenging, you know, I wasn’t getting those same results, I didn’t feel as I was getting the same results as I had previously. And the impact of that was really not my confidence. So where you know, that progression wasn’t coming through as quickly maybe, where those results weren’t coming through as easily, where maybe the that kind of element of loneliness if you like or vulnerability in, there’s more senior positions coming through really started to impact on my self belief and my confidence. So actually, then started becoming a bit of a sort of self fulfilling prophecy, if you like, you know, lacking in confidence means you don’t feel as though you can make great decisions. So then you start prevaricating a little bit and you start second guessing yourself and all those sorts of things. So it kind of becomes a little bit of a downward spiral. And I’ve just really felt as though I’d lost my mojo in that, in that space. Tend with my sort of personal dynamics that were going on. So I got married in 2018. And unfortunately, just feel locked down. My husband said he wanted to leave and we got, we were getting divorced. And I think that in conjunction with lockdown, and you know, all things COVID has, we’ve all had to sort of survive through made me really reassess life in general. You know, I had on paper previously, on paper, I had every trappings of success, I had the great career, I was married, I had a beautiful home, had a brilliant social life, and all those sorts of things. And then all of a sudden, everything felt like it was stripped away. Some of it out of my own choice, some of it done to me, but in the context of the global pandemic, where actually we all had a lot more time to think about ourselves, our lives, what was going on, and so on. And so really, for me, that became my pivotal moment, it was very much, you know, I’m at rock bottom, from a professional point of view, which is something that’s always really important to me, I’ve lost my major have lost my confidence, or really not sure where this is going. And from a personal point of view, everything that I’ve held dear has all of a sudden, the foundations had been wobbled. And so it was like, okay, come on, Joanna, what can I do about this, and it was at that point in time, I was like, I need to work with a coach, I need to understand what’s important to me, I need to get to know me again. And then I can start building a plan moving forwards. Basically, that’s exactly what I did.


Anna Lundberg  

Sounds like both internal and external forces, as you said, both personal and professional, it’s really interesting, because that idea kind of looking up the ladder ahead of you to see actually I don’t want to progress into those roles. That’s really interesting, because that’s when when it’s really important moment, as you did to begin to look elsewhere. Like, actually, I’m working really hard. But for what do I want to get that next rung? Actually not. And as you know, I and hopefully, as you the listeners know, as well, I talked about the five pillars of building a life outside the nine to five. The first one I’m already hearing you say is defining what success means to you. So yeah, shared a little bit, but how do you feel that your definition has evolved? So you were working towards these, as you said, traditional trappings of success? Was that an intentional choice? Do you think or was that more just kind of subconsciously, you’re just kind of on the conveyor belt of doing what we’re supposed to be doing?


Jo Jackson  

Yeah. This is a really interesting point. So success is something that I work with a lot of my clients so I’m actually in a one to one coaching space. And I from a personal point of view, I definitely was on the conveyor belt as you described it, and that’s really Nice wording, you know, I think a lot of our sort of generation. So I’m mid 30s, I think a lot of our generation have been very much encouraged to think, okay, a levels degree graduate job progressing up the career ladder, when you’re going to get manager in your title, when you’re going to get director in your title, whatever it might be. And it almost feels as if there’s this sort of consistent focus on what’s next, you know, constantly looking forwards, almost not accepting that what you’ve got now is good enough, or we’re looking for that next thing, really thinking about ambition being, you know, so important, don’t get me wrong. I’m a hugely ambitious person. But sometimes you just have to accept that what you’ve got now is really good, you know, acknowledge what you’ve got at the moment. And I think, yeah, I absolutely used to define success by my job title by where I sat in the hierarchy, by my salary, by the holidays, I could go on, which was funded by my salary, and so on those more sort of traditional, almost external markings of success. So most of those things that someone could look at you and be like, Okay, here’s the tick box or five things. Yeah, tip, these are the sort of the epitome of success. I think, however, when I was working with my coach, and when I went through this pivotal moment in my life, I started to realize that actually, I can define success in a completely different way. And it might mean that I still get to a great income, it might mean that I still live in a beautiful home, it might mean that I still have great holidays. But actually, I’m not doing it for those reasons. What I’m doing it is the reasons I’m defining my success in different ways. Because actually, if I can do it in a way that gives me sense of passion, sense of purpose, a sense of comfort, but also a sense of ambition and pride than those other things will follow. That makes sense. It’s not about trying to chase the dream of the house, the car, the salary, there’s the hierarchy level, it’s more about okay, am I doing something that’s purposeful, and I didn’t think that’s worthwhile. Am I do something that I’m passionate about? Am I doing something where I’m having an impact? Am I doing something where my work life balance works for me? Am I doing something where I feel free, because I’m in control of my time, I doing something where I’m meeting more people where I’m consistently learning, all of a sudden, I started realizing that almost the input metrics of what success means to me were very different. The output metrics might be similar, but actually, the input metrics were quite different. And actually, I used to say, you know, I don’t want to sell my soul anymore. And I really felt like that. And it’s interesting, because some of my clients use versions of those words with me, I think we can get stuck in the conveyor belt of life. And we think the only way to achieve those, those ambitions, those sort of external validation to success is to follow this particular model. But actually, I’ve realized, and I’m learning, I’m still learning that that’s not the case. But actually, if you go in with it with the right input metrics of what’s my passion, what’s my purpose, what impact I want to have? How do I want to manage my life with a life balance that works for me, then that’s a much more deep and meaningful version of success. In my view.


Anna Lundberg  

It’s so interesting, because as you say, in a way, it’s quite subtle, and it’s internal. So maybe the outward bound metrics areJo Jackson - online use -19 the same, and other people can’t even tell that you made the shift. But it’s so foundational, I don’t know, if you’ve come across Danielle, the port’s core desired feelings, because what I’m hearing you say is a lot of that. So she talks about, instead of having what she would say, is quite masculine energy goals of, I want to have a big house, and I want to have this job. And so one, it’s about Well, no, I want to feel grounded, I want to feel secure, or I want to feel free, I want to feel alive. And these feelings might be achieved through some of those external things like having a house, but a house, for example, can be, Wow, I feel grounded, and I feel like I’m belonging and so on. But it can also be I feel trapped, and so on, because suddenly I’m in this mortgage, and I can’t, you know, so. And so the feeling I heard you say was really important. Another piece was your values. So it’s, of course, something we do a lot in coaching, get clear on our values, you mentioned that achieving was one of your values, would you say that still one of your values? Or have you reframed that a little bit in this process?


Jo Jackson  

Yes, I think it’s really interesting, because values is something that I don’t think any of us really know is very, it’s a very subconscious concept. And yet our values are what drives us. They’re, they’re what, you know, what makes us feel happy or complete or fulfilled or what have you. And yet, most of us are not aware of what our values are. So that was one of the great things I did was actually working out what my values are. So in terms of achievement, absolutely achievement, ambition, they’re still very important to me in terms of my values, but actually the way I’ve, where where I’ve defined achievement is different from how I used to define it. So where achievement may well have been about, you know, leveling the organization or getting to a director level title. Now, it’s more about what’s the impact I’m having on other people, for example, and so it’s, I think your value set is intrinsic To you, it might tweak slightly over time, but the lens within which to look at it can actually evolve quite significantly. And I think that’s what’s a really interesting dynamic. There. One thing that’s really important to me is community. So having that sense of team, Well, ironically, I now work on my own. But actually, I’m working with people who are very like minded individuals, I’m opening up my network to people who are very much more like me, and finding my sort of people, if that makes sense. You know, people who are in this learning and development space, there’s people who are very emotionally aware, people who are very supportive and naturally inquisitive as well. And that’s what coaches are, sort of naturally, intrinsically. And so my community where it used to be about my team and supporting my team to be the best version of themselves, and now actually on my own, but my sense of community is coming in a different way. So I think it’s really interesting, my value is still community, but actually the lens in which I look at it is different.


Anna Lundberg  

Yeah, and it’s a more creative way, I guess, of achieving it. And I love them to the concept of the lens, because you’re looking at it a different way. And that’s, that’s really powerful, again, quite subtle, but can really shift things and the way that you can achieve it is still possible, but in a different way that you were doing before. And you also talked about this, that career ladder, and of course, that metaphor was used and it’s very clear sort of the next rung is of course, after that I’m going to be manager, and then there’s that’s definitely then your boss says, This is what you do and say, Well, how are you and my second pillar is, is building the confidence and resilience to deal with the inevitable ups and downs. So how are you finding that? Of course, you’re relatively new and fresh, as you said at the beginning of the journey, but how are you finding that? It’s, it’s exhilarating, but it can also be scary. So how are you navigating those?


Jo Jackson  

That is a really a really important point, it is exhilarating. And generally 8% of the time when people say to me, how you getting on, I’m like, Oh, my God, I’m loving, yes, amazing. There is 20% me for some days, even more, where it’s like, oh, God, hold on tight, that’s tight, this is gonna be okay. So in terms of building my confidence in the biggest thing that I have realized is because community is such an important value of mine, having those support networks around me is really important. So from a professional point of view, I’ve got my cheerleaders, you know, my family, my friends, all really encouraging me willingly forwards, you know, sharing my posts on LinkedIn, and Instagram, really, you know, applauding those those moments where I’m like, I need to celebrate this, I’ve just landed X client, or I’ve just, you know, completed my qualification, I’ve now got my accreditation with emcc, whatever those moments are, it’s like, oh, let’s have a little classifiers. To celebrate, I’ve got those sort of personal kind of reinforcement or support network. But critically, what I’ve realized is that the benefit of having a kind of professional support network is really important. So remember, the business lounge, where there’s loads of like minded individuals, we set our intentions for the week, we then sort of cheer each other on, you know, we encourage each other, and we also push each other. So it’s like, Have you thought about this Have you have you had the opportunity to consider x or I’ve noticed such and such about what you’ve sent out or whatever it might be something, I think when you’re working for yourself, is important to have that community of people around you, to build you that confidence, give you that encouragement you need, but also to encourage you to go further to check keep challenging you to hold that mirror up sometimes. I think that’s really, really important. I think the second thing from a confidence point of view, and I’m really bad at this is actually acknowledging how far you’ve come. So I have a massive Hurry up driver, I’m always on to the next I’m always thinking about what’s coming. Next, I’ve got all these ideas, I’ve got a massive whiteboard on my office wall, thinking about all these different things that could potentially, you know, build my business over time, that I do have to make sure that I stop every now and then and do a little reflect, you know, I’m really proud of how that went. Or look at that time that I’ve landed, or look how far that, you know, look how far that clients come from X to Y or look up amazing feedback. I’ve had those moments where, historically, I probably would have just sort of moved forward and forgotten. And I’m actually really trying to take my own advice, to be honest, and take a moment to stop and reflect. And one of the ways I do do that is I have a monthly meeting with my dad, who’s my company secretary who keeps me or my admins sorted, and I actually agenda, you know, okay, what’s gone? Well, this month, what have I done? I’m really pleased with because otherwise I wouldn’t do it. Because I’d always be looking looking further forwards. So yeah, acknowledging results, for me has definitely been something that I’ve been working on. But it’s really important to actually close the loop on some of this stuff. Otherwise, you constantly feel like moving forwards.


Anna Lundberg  

Yeah. And I think that’s a struggle I see again, and again, clients and I tell my clients to celebrate and I’m so bad at it myself. And that’s it. Yes. Seeing how I mean, if you really looked at where you were a year ago, for me, you know, I’d never even heard of podcasts and zoom probably, you know, seven, eight years ago, it’s ridiculous. And websites and all these things. So if you can just look back and see how far you’ve come and like that Instagram meme as you know if the EU from a year ago would be so impressed with with where you are. Right so that’s so important and having as He said the support network so kick key, cheerleaders, accountability, challenging all those different types of support. So, so important. So that’s really valuable and so great that you have those in place.


Jo Jackson  

Yeah, totally, totally, totally.


Anna Lundberg  

And you mentioned a little bit about your choosing your business model, which is the third pillar really getting that in place. And I think you said before we got on recording, you talked about the three legged stool. So I love this idea. Can you tell us a little bit more about how you’re putting that in place? And how you’re thinking about a viable business model? That’s really going to give you the long term sustainable business?


Jo Jackson  

Yeah, absolutely. So I had a really great conversation with a mentor of mine, probably two or three years ago, you know, when I started having the nipple is that is how I describe it, that kind of what’s next, you know, I’ve kind of always toyed around the edges of what is my future going to look like, if it’s not in this corporate model? Everything from wedding planning to God knows what I literally, I looked at it all, but I had a conversation. And he said to me, and it’s probably the single biggest, like, most impactful piece of advice I had in the practicalities, if you like, of setting up a business from being in the corporate world, he said to me, think about your business, like a three legged stool, think about having different elements of your business and just creating like a portfolio business, so that you’re not putting all your eggs in one basket effectively. So I have probably got two tickets to maybe a two and a half legged stool at the moment. You know, my one to one executive coaching, most of which is b2c business to consumer. So me working with individual clients who approached me via LinkedIn or my website, for example, I also have some elements of coaching where I work with organizations who, you know, invest in coaching on behalf of their individuals. So still in the coaching space, but more of a b2b type model. And then as I mentioned, I’ve got this third leg of my, my stool if you like, which is the training and facilitation in the world of sales negotiation, which is absolutely amazing. It’s associate work on behalf of an organization, still in the realm of coaching, still in the realm of helping people to unlock their potential, which is absolutely my mission and purpose, but a slightly different lens on it really using that sort of wheelhouse of my experience, there’s 15 years in that commercial corporate world that, you know, where I’ve learned loads and loads of experience, probably, you know, I can’t imagine the number of conversations I’ve had with customers who are actually bringing that to life, and helping other people to accelerate their career in that space as well. And what I want to do with these three legs of the stool, these two and a half legs of the stool is work out, which are the bits that are actually going to accelerate further. So you know, it’s by no means a sort of 5050 split, am I comfortable with that split, you know, after year one, what is the appropriate split I want it to be. And the way the lens that are looking at that through is not necessarily just the revenue lens, but it’s also going to be the passion lens, you know, the reason I’ve set up on my own as a self employed person, is because I want to be doing something that’s in line with my mission, my purpose, my passions. And so it’s really important to me that I love what I do, and that I you know, I get that buzz, and I’ve got my Mojo and I’m really enjoying, and getting a sense of satisfaction that I want from that. So it’s very much a starting point, I’m only a few months into this, this kind of journey of mine, with my pivotal moments business. But this idea of three legged stool is really something that I’m holding on to because it’s giving me that opportunity to have that portfolio approach and at the same time to give me the opportunity to work out actually, where do I want to accelerate, which are the bits that I want to really push forward on. So


Anna Lundberg  

I love that it’s such a sound approach. I mean, I’m such a fan of the portfolio career idea anyway, I think it really takes a lot of boxes, as it were for so many of us who have so many interests, and we want to do a lot of things. And as you said, it’s such a shame to turn our backs on a successful career because I like you, I didn’t hate my job, I certainly you know, I went through a bit of a rebellious phase when I was a bit like, well, corporate and so on. But actually, I loved just like you I loved what I’d learned incredible opportunities, people and so on. And it’s so, so powerful to take that with you, even if it’s just a temporary transition. And maybe in the future, you move away from that. But the fact that you have that as a pretty sort of low hanging fruit as we’d call it back in my corporate days, but then also you’re adding new streams of the one to one coaching, maybe a combination with the coaching with the corporates and so on. And that’s, that’s such a powerful combination. And ironically, it’s more diversified and secure than that one single salary that we always used to cling on to thinking that we have this one stable, yeah. Give us the safe pension. So once that has


Jo Jackson  

been everyone that has been a real mindset shift is this idea of, you know, going in and having the sort of scope of the career and you know, having the pay packet in the month and so on. It’s very much a sort of, as you say, it’s one one box of sort of approach. Actually, this idea of having a portfolio of different things going on, really opens up your mind this possibility of sort of freedom, you know, it’s so much more, the opportunities are so broader, I think. And whilst that is Really exciting in the main, it can kind of give you a few wobbles. But it does give you that opportunity to, to make those choices, which is brilliant, you know, my, my three legged stool will probably evolve over the next 18 months, you know, it will, it will, it won’t not probably it will evolve, depending on what happens, probably extra legs will come on to the stool, maybe other parts of it will change. And actually, what’s amazing about that is that I can choose to do that, that’s totally my gift, make those decisions.


Anna Lundberg  

So, again, it’s kind of scary, but it’s also so exciting before Yes, it was quite nice to have a salary regardless of how much effort you put in. And let’s be honest, as high achievers, we put in a lot of effort. And there’s done a ceiling of how much we can actually whereas now if you want to do an extra workshop, you want to contact an extra 10 companies, you want to take on three more clients, that’s completely open to you, right? Likewise, of course, you can take a step back as well. So you mentioned that people are approaching LinkedIn, for example. So how have you been building as the fourth pillar? How have you been building your personal brand? Some of it sounds like obviously, you’re leveraging existing and past experience and network, but how are you finding sort of shifting in this new direction and adding the new legs of the stool to your brand?


Jo Jackson  

Yeah. So I think that when you want to think about the idea of creating a personal brand, as a salesperson, historically, that doesn’t sit comfortably with me, almost, it almost doesn’t feel like I have been doing that. But then I have been reflecting and listening back to your previous podcasts about what you mean by the concept of personal brand. And I think the first thing that I’ve realized I’ve done albeit maybe subconsciously rather than overtly is really tapping into my purpose. So one of the biggest things I wanted to get to grips with so authenticity is another one of my values. So being true to me, and, and operating in an authentic, open, transparent way, is really important to me. And linked with that, then getting really clear on my why so masterfan assignments, for anyone who’s not read it, listen to it, the brilliant podcast on getting to your Y, my big thing for me is I want to help people to get unstuck, so help them to lead fulfilling lives on their terms. And that could be anything from you know, one to one executive coaching, where they’ve lost their confidence, or it could be supporting some national account managers who are wanting to you know, accelerate their sales career. You know, underneath that banner, that umbrella if you’d like of helping people to maximize their potential, finding fulfillment on their terms, there are so many different levers that I could potentially pull. And so I always constantly check myself is everything I’m doing in services, that overarching purpose, if you like, of helping people to realize their potential, find fulfilment on their terms, that’s absolutely what I want to be known for. And everything I want to do, I want to be in service as that particular purpose if you like. So that’s, I think that’s the first thing is being really true to that. I think the second thing that’s really important to me is that every interaction that people have with me, I want them to feel me. So, you know, I want them to experience Jo Jackson, in reality, you know, I don’t want to feel as though I’m putting on a facade, I don’t do this, I’m operating in a way that I should be doing. You know, I think, I think sometimes in big organizations, you can kind of lose that sense of individuality. Sometimes you can kind of maybe feel like you’re being molded into a certain approach. Or maybe you have to check what you say, or maybe you have to approach things in a politically sensitive way. There’s SO and SO wants you to say such as such, I think what’s really important to me is that sense of authenticity. And you know that therefore, I really hope that my clients and people who I work with have that sense of the real, the real me the real experience of me as a person, you know, what’s know, I’d be really open about what’s going on in my personal life. I’m really open about the trials and tribulations that you know, the good stuff as well. And I think that’s what’s really important is that this is a shiny, perfect persona of Jackson, this is the real Jo Jackson. And I hope that that helps me make me more relatable. Because I think that we can get a great connection with somebody which then means you can help them to realize their potential to unlock whatever it is that they know that life is fulfilling on their terms.


Anna Lundberg  

I love that and that’s exactly and and thank you so much for listening to get an understanding of how I see the personal brand because it is it can feel quite icky. And it’s funny that you come from a sales background and yet still found it a bit of a foreign concept. But that’s exactly it’s the big picture, why of what you want to stand for, but then also bringing that to life in the day to day and every conversation, every interaction and I it sounds like you’re allowing them to give you the breath to experiment and so on. But again, it’s the lens through which you’re looking at projects and clients and so on to make sure it’s all sticking to that so I hope people can see how powerful that is and also how flexible is it kind It gives you a framework without being too beholden to like, No, this is what you have to do and so on. So the final pillar is designing effective work life integration or flexible work life integration. So how are you finding that in terms of setting boundaries, prioritizing your time and energy? You said, you’re working, of course, a lot by yourself. So are you fulfilling that need for community assessment? How are you integrating or not work?


Jo Jackson  

And like? Yeah, that’s a really good question. So I think the first thing I’ll say is that, one thing I have noticed is, again, going back to my values, the community is hugely important to me, I have noticed sitting in my third bedroom with a laptop and the you know, Zoom call, and all those sorts of things doesn’t necessarily nourish me as much as sitting in an office might or, or going, you know, meeting clients face to face. So one of the things I’ve really put in place is actually making sure that on those days where I’m not having one to one client conversations, maybe when I’m doing work on the business, rather than in the business, or maybe where I’m producing content, or those sorts of things, I’m actually doing that in an environment where there’s a bit of bustle around me. So whether that’s the health club, whether that’s the library with us, cafe, whatever it might be, I find that just by being around other people, I get topped up from an energy point of view and very much at the an extrovert. So I have realized that I need to mix that up for me. And you know, you sort of I noticed when my energy levels were waning, and then, right, okay, I need to get out, I need to go and be in an environment where there’s where there’s energy around me. So I can, you know, find my mojo back on that particular day. So the first thing, the second thing in terms of boundaries, this is a really interesting one. So from a boundaries point of view, I’ve said to myself, first things first, I want Friday afternoons for me. So I don’t want to have anything after one o’clock on a Friday afternoon. It’s really important to me, because I want to know that I’ve got time to go and have my hair done, or I’ve got time to go meet the girls for an alley doors, you know, for a drink, or I can go and travel to wherever I’m going to for the weekend, or whatever it might be. So actually, this is my time for me, you know, it’s protected knee time, if you like. And I’ve really, I’m quite proud of myself, I’ve actually pretty much stuck to that, I’d say 98% of the time so far. That’s good. And then the other thing I’ve also tried to do is I’m trying to protect my time in the morning. So I am not an actual gym bunny. But I know that exercise really helps me. But I have to get it done in the morning. So many other things I’m doing is I’m not having any client facing time before hoppers, nine in the morning. That means that I can get up at you know, not at horrible o’clock and the massive symbolic as well. It also means from get to the gym, get my stuff done, get set up really for the day and at Harper’s nine and then in really good mindset to be in my best self to be able to give that to my clients as well. And I think what I’ve learned from that is actually protecting that time for me is really important, because that will give me the energy to be the best one to one coach I can be to be the best trainer or facilitator as well. And I think it really helps if I’m charged up properly, that I can then support people as I want to. But then I suppose as well, from an energy point of view, I’ve also noticed that sometimes I’m really in the mood to get into the zone, write a blog article. And it might be Sunday morning, and I might be sat on the sofa with my feet up. But actually, if I’ve got an hour to do that, why not. So I kind of go a little bit where the energy takes me as well, which, when I think about flexibility and freedom, that is so cool, so liberating. And the thing is, because I love what I do, it doesn’t feel like work. It’s like, oh, I want to write about such and such. Great, I’m in the mood for that. Let’s get in the zone, you know, get the air pods in and get the tunes going, whatever it might be and get on with it. But that means that on Wednesday afternoon, I’m really struggling, let’s go make sense, go for a walk or let’s go into whatever and, and and really acknowledging where my energy is, has helped me to sort of intertwine this work life integration if you like. I’m not suggesting I’ve got it all nailed. I really haven’t. But I definitely feel as though putting those few little bits in has helped me with the flexibility. When I was in the world of corporate I felt very tethered to my laptop. And that’s not the case anymore. You know, I know where I’m at with everything. I know that I’m on top of everything. I know that probably I’m pushing myself to go even faster and harder. But actually, I’m not accountable to anyone else apart from me and my clients. And so I can do my work on a Sunday morning or I can finish at lunchtime on a Wednesday if I’m struggling with my mojo. And that’s okay, because I know that I trust myself to get it done. Because it’s all in service of my passion, my purpose and helping other people. So, you know,


Anna Lundberg  

I don’t think any of us haven’t nailed however long we’ve been in business or how we’re starting but But it sounds like you’re making a lot of very good choices there. I mean, the fact that you’re setting up already, I only like to think of a loose structure right? And it’s through that structure that you get the freedom and then having the flexibility as you say to actually go where your energy is is really important. I think we can go too far and I have gone to far either way, if you go completely, oh, I just want to go with the flow, fine. But probably that’ll end up with, you’re not achieving the goals and you’re not making the impact you want to make and so on. But then if you’re too rigid, then what’s the point of having left a nine to five, because you haven’t used recreating that same cage, or whatever you want to call it. So I think the combination as you say, you’re blocking certain times, but Friday afternoon is really nice. And I think officers should do that. In fact, anyway, you know, knowing yourself your own energy, I actually block the morning entirely up until I think it’s one o’clock, I don’t do any client calls because I want to then be able to work on my book and create content and whatever else. I also exercise fasting in the morning, but others, I’m sure, do it at lunch or in the evening. Right. So really knowing your your sleep needs and your energies, your priorities, your life situation. And again, that has evolved for me, you know, before I met my partner, I was working all over the place, literally, physically, and also in terms of time, then he had more of a nine to five, and then I fell into Monday to Friday, then he left his job, and then it’s more flexible again, then we’ve got the kids who are only in, you know, nursery a couple of days a week, and so on. So it really does evolve. So as you say, it will be a journey, but it sounds like again, from my expert opinion that you’ve really put in place. Some really good, you know, what do they call those sort of guide rails almost guardrails? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So again, flexibility, but but helping you to make the right choices as it were. Guilt as well as so important, isn’t it? Exactly. It’s


Jo Jackson  

not feeling guilty, but also, I suppose it’s it’s guardrails. It’s not necessarily structure, but it’s, if something comes in in terms of an opportunity, and it means starting at 8am. Okay, cool. I need to make an active choice, then am I willing to do that? Probably yes. But it’s not, it’s not all the time, it’s not being done to me, I’m, I have the opportunity to choose that. Rather than feeling like I have to wear a shirt. So I think it just, it just holds that sort of space in my mind to be able to make those choices that work for me. Because at the end the day, that’s what I’m doing this, to have the life that the balance the the, you know, the fulfillment that I’m looking for.


Anna Lundberg  

And it is, as you say, creating that space, because it’s so easy to go, Oh my gosh, yes, I should. And I have to and I want to and then also going hang on a second and then making an empowered, informed decision that yes, actually, the money is worth it, or the impact I’ll make or the time or whatever it is, or as you say, Sunday, I feel so inspired, I’d love to I’d love to live by the pool, and like write this blog post because I feel so inspired. And that doesn’t feel like a drain to me, because I actually love what I’m doing. So again, that’s very familiar to me. And I’m sure you’re well. And so with that in mind, where can we read more about pivotal moments and follow? Follow what you’re up to Jay?


Jo Jackson  

Yeah, absolutely. So pivotalmoments.co.uk is my website with everything on there from the one to one coaching piece to capability development. Also, one of my blog posts is a bit more about my story. So if anyone wants to have a little nosy at that, then please do take the opportunity to do that. And sign up to the community as well. So every week I released say, a newsletter or a blog post or something, events, and so on and so forth. So it’d be great to ask people to join me in that space. Definitely.


Anna Lundberg  

Amazing. Thank you, I will definitely link to that your blog post with a story I was I was reading, as I said, just before we spoke, and it’s so resonates with my own experience. It’s so I’m sure. And I know in fact very much mirroring so many of my clients experiences as well. And very much what we’ve talked about today even use the words of redefining success, and so on. So it’s, I’m so glad to have met you and want to thank you so much for giving your precious time and energy to us today to share your experience so far. And of course, I’d love to follow along and see how your journey progresses. So maybe we can reconnect and a while and see how you’re gonna see what’s changed. The next pivotal moment.


Jo Jackson  

Yeah, absolutely. And I’m sure there will be many, for all of us. Yeah.


Anna Lundberg  

And in fact, I think we said that. And you said that I should say before we came on as well. But Jo was talking about the those different pivotal moments that come in life. And it’s not just the one I see some people talk about sort of the second isn’t the second stage of career or whatever took a midlife crisis. But actually, it can be, you know, can be a personal thing like a divorce or something that triggers it can be having children, it can be a personal illness, it can but it can be many, or several things along the way. And as we’ve been saying, it can be terrifying at first, but it can also be so exciting and empowering. And we get to rebuild, reinvent, create something new and perhaps even better, and certainly different to what we had before. So yes, here’s to those future pivotal moments as well. I’m sure there’ll be more for all of us so much again, Jo, thanks for coming.


Jo Jackson  

Thank you, to you.

Work with Anna

Let us help you design a business and a life that gives you freedom from the 9 to 5. There are several options for how you can work with us. Choose the programme that’s right for you.

The Outsiders Business Incubator

A year-long business incubator for experienced corporate professionals who want to translate their skills and passions into a profitable and fulfilling business. onestepoutside.com/9to5

The Outsiders Business Accelerator

An ongoing mastermind for service-based business owners, freelancers and online entrepreneurs who are ready to achieve success on their own terms. onestepoutside.com/accelerate

The Outsiders Business Academy

A self-paced course for you to work through in your own time, to learn – and implement – the foundations of building a profitable business that lets you escape the 9 to 5. onestepoutside.com/course

1:1 Coaching & Mentoring

If you’re looking for one-to-one support to help you achieve your specific life and business goals, Anna has a limited number of spots for individual coaching and mentoring. onestepoutside.com/coaching

The Outsiders Business Incubator

A mentoring programme focused on implementation support and accountability to help you grow your expert business faster – without sacrificing your personal life to do so.


Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

You might also like

“Everything you’ve ever
wanted is one step outside
your comfort zone.”

Book a free consultation

Get on the phone with Anna to discuss your unique goals and situation to determine the best programme for you, so you can start taking action towards creating the business and lifestyle you desire.

Get a free assessment of your business

Download this scorecard to review where you are on each of the 5 pillars of building a life outside of the 9 to 5, and get clear action steps to help you fill the gaps.

We will use and protect your data in accordance with our Privacy Policy.

Looking to grow your expert business?

Download this FREE Business Assessment to identify the gaps that are preventing your growth so that you can take actionable steps towards building a more successful and sustainable business.

We will use and protect your data in accordance with our Privacy Policy.

Download the brochure

Find out more about our flagship mentoring programme for experienced professionals who want to translate their skills and experience into a profitable business that brings them more freedom, flexibility, and fulfilment.

We will use and protect your data in accordance with our Privacy Policy.

Privacy Policy

This privacy policy sets out how One Step Outside uses and protects any information that you give One Step Outside when you use this website (https://onestepoutside.com/).

One Step Outside is committed to ensuring that your privacy is protected. Should we ask you to provide certain information by which you can be identified when using this website, then you can be assured that it will only be used in accordance with this privacy statement.

One Step Outside may change this policy from time to time by updating this page. You should check this page from time to time to ensure that you are happy with any changes.

What information we collect and why

We only ever collect the information that we need in order to serve you.

Generally, this just means collecting your first name and email address that you enter, for example, when you request a resource, register for a webinar, or submit a message via a contact form.

If you are a paying customer, we also collect your billing information including your last name and your postal address.


When visitors leave comments on the site we collect the data shown in the comments form, and also the visitor’s IP address and browser user agent string to help spam detection.

An anonymised string created from your email address (also called a hash) may be provided to the Gravatar service to see if you are using it. The Gravatar service privacy policy is available here: https://automattic.com/privacy/. After approval of your comment, your profile picture is visible to the public in the context of your comment.

Contact forms

We use Gravity Forms to allow you to contact us via the website. We will use the information you submit for the sole purpose of that specific form and will explicitly ask you to provide your consent to allow us to do so.

Embedded content from other websites

Articles on this site may include embedded content (e.g. videos, images, articles, etc.). Embedded content from other websites behaves in the exact same way as if the visitor has visited the other website.

These websites may collect data about you, use cookies, embed additional third-party tracking, and monitor your interaction with that embedded content, including tracking your interaction with the embedded content if you have an account and are logged in to that website.

Advertising and Analytics


We use Google Analytics to track and optimise performance on this site as well as embedding video content from YouTube, and this means that your web browser automatically sends certain information to Google. This includes the URL of the page that you’re visiting and your IP address. Google may also set cookies on your browser or read cookies that are already there. Apps that use Google advertising services also share information with Google, such as the name of the app and a unique identifier for advertising.

Google uses the information shared by sites and apps to deliver our services, maintain and improve them, develop new services, measure the effectiveness of advertising, protect against fraud and abuse and personalise content and ads that you see on Google and on our partners’ sites and apps. See their Privacy Policy to learn more about how they process data for each of these purposes, and their Advertising page for more about Google ads, how your information is used in the context of advertising and how long Google stores this information.


We use the conversion tracking and custom audiences via the Facebook pixel on our website. This allows user behaviour to be tracked after they have been redirected to our website by clicking on a Facebook ad and enables us to measure the effectiveness of our Facebook ads. The data collected in this way is anonymous to us, i.e. we do not see the personal data of individual users. However, this data is stored and processed by Facebook, who may link this information to your Facebook account and also use it for its own promotional purposes, in accordance with Facebook’s Data Usage Policy https://www.facebook.com/about/privacy/.

You can allow Facebook and its partners to place ads on and off Facebook. A cookie may also be stored on your computer for these purposes. You can revoke your permission directly on Facebook here: https://www.facebook.com/ads/preferences/?entry_product=ad_settings_screen. For more guidance on opting out you can also consult http://www.aboutads.info/choices.

Who we share your data with

We use a number of third parties to provide us with services which are necessary to run our business or to assist us with running our business and who process your information for us on our behalf. These include a hosting and email provider (Siteground), mailing list provider (GetResponse), and a payment provider (Stripe).

Your information will be shared with these service providers only where necessary to enable us to run our business.

How long we maintain your data

If you leave a comment, the comment and its metadata are retained indefinitely. This is so we can recognise and approve any follow-up comments automatically instead of holding them in a moderation queue.

For users that register on our website, we also store the personal information they provide in their user profile. All users can see, edit, or delete their personal information at any time (except they cannot change their username). Website administrators can also see and edit that information.

The main reason for collecting this information is to be able to send you resources, updates and, sometimes, information and products and services, as well as for internal record keeping.

The rights you have over your data

If you have an account on this site, or have left comments, you can request to receive an exported file of the personal data we hold about you, including any data you have provided to us. You can also request that we erase any personal data we hold about you. This does not include any data we are obliged to keep for administrative, legal, or security purposes.

How we protect your data

We are committed to ensuring that your information is secure.

Where we have given you (or where you have chosen) a password that lets you access certain parts of our site, you are responsible for keeping this password confidential and we ask you not to share a password with anyone.

Unfortunately, the transmission of information via the internet is not completely secure. Although we will do our best to protect your personal data, we cannot guarantee the security of your data transmitted to our site; any transmission is at your own risk. Once we have received your information, we will use strict procedures and security features to try to prevent unauthorised access.

Links to other websites

Our website contains links to other websites. This privacy policy only applies to this website so once you have used these links to leave our site, you should note that we do not have any control over that other website. You should exercise caution and look at the privacy statement applicable to the website in question.

Changes to our privacy policy

We keep our privacy policy under regular review. Initially created on 18th November 2016, it was last updated on 23rd May 2018 to be compliant with GDPR.

Contact information

If you have any questions or concerns related to your privacy, you can get in touch here >>