Ep. 201 Leadership and business coach Adrian Hales

Escaping the 9 to 5 with Adrian Hales

Adrian’s experience spans the military, semi-professional and professional rugby, and learning and development. Today, Adrian Hales is a leadership and business coach helping life coaches scale and build their businesses.

Adrian is a transformative coach who works with coaches, leaders, and business owners who are inspired to create inner alignment and do the deeper subconscious work that empowers them to lead their authentic direction, make their unique contributions to the world and live their legacy.

You can connect with Adrian on LinkedIn.

*Resources mentioned during the episode*

The Outsiders Business Incubator – A year-long business incubator for experienced corporate professionals who want to translate their skills and passions into a profitable and fulfilling business. onestepoutside.com/9to5

Leadership and business coach

Anna Lundberg  

Hello everybody and welcome back to this month’s Escaping the 9 to 5 interview I’m here with Adrian Hales. Adrian, why don’t you introduce yourself and tell us what were you doing before and what are you doing now?

Adrian Hales  

Awesome. Thanks very much for having me today. And you know, really looking forward to having a really explorative conversation today around your, around your pillars. Previously, my background is when I was younger was in the military, and then, you know, a year of years of playing semi professional and professional rugby, in different countries. And then I found the love for coaching, like, you know, found that passion for developing and coaching other people, and then subsequently went into learning and development, where I was working in different countries, that 10 or 11 different countries, developing leaders and coaching and developing workshops, and then escaped the nine to five, as they say, as we say today, and now I’m a leadership and business coach working with life coaches, transformational coaches, helping them scale and build their business a little bit similar to the mission that you’re on as well. So

Anna Lundberg  

and it sounds like there’s two pivotal moments then. So what was it that led you to sort of move away from the rugby military career into the coaching in general, and then we can Secondly, look at what led you to, as you say, escape the kind of corporate structure and go out on your own?

Adrian Hales  

Yeah, and I think it goes, it goes very much like what you said, you’ve said previously, on your website, I think it’s something like, leap into the unknown, you know, going into that unknown. And, you know, I, I built my identity around, you know, the military and the rugby. And it was all about performance, it was all about teams. And, and that vehicle for success, if you like, around that identity enabled me to achieve some amazing things, you know, like 41, tries in a season BBC Player of the Month, you know, awards in the army. And those environments provide like a sense of safety, a sense of belonging, but they allow you to perform, they provide a holistic view of your life. And what happened one year was, I was playing for this, you know, amazing team called rugby lions. And I really went pro put all my energy and effort into being an exceptional rugby player. And as I said, 41, I broke the record, this club record, like just 39 trials in 41 trials in the season, I mean, 25 games, which is, you know, just through dedication, and then after that, that period, of going through that I went to some of the clubs, I was getting paid for rugby, but I just lost this spark, I lost this, this motivation, the love and the enjoyment of playing the game. And by that point, I paid to sort of 15 years and I had like niggling injuries. And, and, and combine that with, with, with losing that motivation, that love of the game. And what I found is, I went to some other clubs, and they, they wouldn’t allow me to express my full talents. And if we think about that, in a corporate context, we’re not able to express our brilliance, and I was constrained. And I was told to, you know, just stay on the wing and do as you’re told, and, and I wasn’t able to express those talents. And I tolerated that for a number of years. And I even started working with a sports psychologist, which we were using anchors, which were strapped to my kind of kind of wrist bandages to help me get motivated. And then one day, I just woke up, and I and at that point, I got introduced into coaching. And there was some, there’s some spark in that. But at that point, I just, I realized that I’d lost the motivation, and it was time to transition to something that I enjoyed. And the thing that was in front of me was just just this, this coaching, I didn’t know too much about it, I’ve done a little bit of it. And I was just inspired to kind of, to follow that path of of coaching. And, and what it what it was all about. And it was about letting go of some that got me to that point and embracing something new very much what you said going into that unknown and, and really redefining from that point, but I came to that, that crossroads, and I had to let go of rugby, which has been around the world with an embrace this, this coaching, which, which inspired me, but I wasn’t sure where I was gonna go with it at that point.

Anna Lundberg  

Yeah, I’ve got so many things going around in my head that I want to pick up on. But I find the sort of the military and the sports angle I find really interesting. And I’ve had a few conversations, actually with rugby teams and cricket teams and so on. Because of course, there’s a point in your sports career where you’re certain sports, certainly you’re forced to retire in a way early, and then you have to go into a different career. And you’re kind of compelled to redefine success and all those things you talked about the identity is so built on this incredible thing that presumably has been your passion and your calling. And that camaraderie, the team that sort of it’s such a strong world and to then in that case, know that there is sort of an expiration day and of course you then proactively sense that your motivation was going anyway, which is fantastic that you were able to assertively make that decision rather than kind of be forced into it. I have to admit I’m not I have been forced, I want to say in in a very critical way, my partner is very into his rugby career. So I have over the years been watching a bit more than I used to. And I have to, unfortunately, I don’t remember who it was. But he mentioned he was just a podcast with somebody I believe. It was remember things badly, but some very advanced, I’m sure. sports player actually had his awards and things away, because he wanted to close the door, as he said, on that world, move into this new space. And rather than keep looking back on the glory days really thing, no, I’m in a new place now. And let’s focus forwards. Is that how you feel?

Adrian Hales  

Yeah, I think I think there’s lots of lessons and it’s intrinsically who we become right. And you spoke about, on one of your podcasts around the identity and around this piece of identity. And I think that it serves us to a point but where, where we’re now going on this new journey, I felt, there’s some elements of that, that certainly but I needed to completely have a beginner’s mindset and open myself to this this world of coaching, which as you know, is just is just infinite. But when I’d finished these, these, that rugby career, and I had that there’s a sense of safety, you almost you’re almost they create a sense of safety for you to be able to push yourself beyond your limits. But also in many ways, there’s the fears there that get hidden, because you’ve got this, you know, group mentality, and the fears of being a lone tiger or a lone, kind of lion in the wilderness are kind of hidden and, and when I left those environments, when I got into coaching, it wasn’t just the skill of coaching to learn, it was like, Oh, my God, like, there’s this personal transformation that you have to go through when the fears of like, I’m not safe anymore, because I’m not in the collective. And you know, what, if I fail, and all these things go around, so then it led me into that kind of reinventing myself, I think one of the quotes is, there’s a similar one in your, your, your website, but it’s everything you’ve ever wanted is one step outside of your comfort zone. And what I found is, everything you’ve ever wanted is, you know, beyond your fears is more of your true self, you know, is more of who you are, as, you know, your truest essence. And then at that point, I kind of went through an awakening of some kind. And I realized that needed to go and have some time away. So after my rugby career, I just, I left that behind me, as you say, and just forget about that. I’m going on this new path now. And I went to to Menorca to do some rugby coaching, which is just chilled. And just work on the direction of my life. So I just go went there in the winter and, and journal where I wanted my life to go. And just completely switched off for all of that. And then this this bubble of word come up as I was kept on writing, and the same word kept coming up, you know, leadership transformation and coaching. And then subsequently, I came back to the UK to, you know, follow that path.

Anna Lundberg  

And obviously, there’s a lot of coaching in the sense. And funnily enough, I have lots of sales messages, messages on LinkedIn, from people who think I’m a personal trainer or coach, and they’ve clearly not looked at my profile, and they’re just spamming, but how different would you say having seen both worlds? How different is coaching as it is now in the leadership transformation space that you’re talking about, versus what we see in sports coaching?

Adrian Hales  

Yeah, it’s really interesting, I’d say that in sports coaching is very performance based, it’s very behavior shapes, you know, the team might have a y, which they’re all moving towards, like, finished top in the league. And you might have some values two or three values which underpin the team, a culture gets created. And then and then the, you know, you’re you have performance metrics, it’s very, it’s week by week performance metrics. You either win, lose or draw, and then a Monday you’re you doesn’t matter how you feel you’re back on to the grind. And the thing that drives you other than your own performance is the crowd and the encouragement you get from the crowd, but it’s very habits, it’s very performance based. I would say that the transition, the difference in leadership now that I’ve noticed is, which I never thought I’d be, you know, coaching that I’m talking about that is more of an empathetic and Compassionate Leadership. You know, I think in the sports world, it’s very light, you know, roll up your sleeves, like wipe the dust off your face, and just put more willpower into it. And then that, that limits performance and I think as leaders today leadership coaches, we’ve got to we’ve got to look at the person as a whole being, not just as performance we have a look at more of a holistic point of view, their relationships, their health and fitness, their spiritual life, their their finances, their purpose and all All of those three those, those five things, whereas when you’re doing the rugby, it’s just about, you know, performance and results. And yes, there is player welfare, but none of this is taken into consideration. But as I said, Yeah, it’s important to have that holistic view now, as leaders, because ultimately we’re, we’re human beings, I’m not a coach, I just do coaching, I’m behind that is just a human being that you know, that that is, is not attached to certain, when we become really attached to certain results, then we, when we, when we feel that we are going to find our happiness in Scoring a try, we, but if we can be happy and enjoy what we’re doing now, we’re not dependent on this external event in the future to fulfill us, we were cultivating that holistic view, so we’re more fulfilling alive. Now, you know, moving forward into our dreams or our purpose. That’s the difference. That’s so powerful.

Anna Lundberg  

And as you say, so important and so aligned with the work I do, as well. And I guess coming back, I was just thinking of what you were saying about that belonging, and the and the fears being held back. And so when in the sports world, I actually see the same parallel with the corporate world, right, because so many people feel suddenly isolated, going out into business by themselves, not having the team not having, in my case, a big company with the prestigious name. And you know, I’d go to a conference and I’d say, I’m from this company, and everybody would flock to me, right? Where suddenly you’d become nobody. And as I say, I think between the lines, our society and our society, our identity is so strongly coupled, especially again, somewhere where you are prominent sports player, or, you know, high up in the hierarchy of a company or whatever, that’s so tied, as you say, to how we see success. And I love that perspective, a holistic to the whole person. Would you say that that reflects your own personal journey and redefining success? So the name of this podcast is reimagining success. So does that reflect how you broaden your horizons beyond the kind of performance focus maybe when you were playing rugby? And when you’re in the military, looking more at the whole person discovering these softer, empathetic pieces of the puzzle as well? And considering Yeah, yourself as a whole? The whole being? Yeah, that’s

Adrian Hales  

a great question. I think yeah, it is about like the what you said about reimagining success. Because it’s almost like we’ve we’ve got these dreams, and these these goals and plans that we want to achieve. And they seem like this distant, this distant thing that’s, that’s out of our reach. And one of the one of the quotes is that I came up with is our dreams get left on a dusty shelf and laughed at by everybody else. But it’s having the courage to go into the unknown, and go after these dreams. And I think, just flipping back to what we know, when I left the Rugby World to go into coaching, I realized that rugby had a shelf life and coaching had a longer shelf life. So that’s when I kind of moved along. But to answer kind of what I got a sense of your question is like, the holistic point of view is, you know, hugely important, I think that’s been a big part of my journey. And it’s just one of the most, some of the most profound things that I’ve gone through is moving out of the mind made concept of success, and what other people define as success, and we’re, we’re living into making other people proud, or this version of success, and then we get it and it doesn’t, it doesn’t fulfill us because it was not as in the first place and moving more into like, letting our heart lead, letting our instincts, leading our intuition lead, and, and living our life to what’s most important to us. And am I living that now. And then defining the life and creating the life with what’s most important to you. And, you know, and what matters most to you, and what gives your life meaning. And then living into that. And if you look at like the personal development world, we’ve always got this sense of I mean, I’ve even been there as a coach, or what do you want? And it’s a slight? It’s, it’s an interesting question. There’s a presupposition in that, that we don’t already have it. And the more useful question to ask I think, is, that I started to asking, you know, years ago is where am I going? Because that does imply some type of direction. And, and I think the holistic point of view for me has been something important like to have to view my life into kind of three segments, which is, I’m responsible for myself. I’m responsible for my relationships, closest relationships, and I’m responsible for my successful coaching business, and then to brainstorm and learn areas where I’m nourishing myself and that myself might be meditation, cold showers, using my instinct to goal set, rather than my mind made that sense of self doing exercises I enjoy like boxing or you know, walking and having that part that Self that’s nourished through those elements, then, you know, focusing on the three or four or five things that’s really going to move my business forward. And I’m moving into those fears, and learning to say no to all of the things that distract us. Because obviously, we get, we get distracted by lots of life, bright and shiny things that come up, or your seven steps to success and, you know, click this button, and all this money will pour on the side. Sounds good to me. Sounds wonderful. But it’s like, okay, so then it’s the, you know, looking at the coaching business, and then it’s about, you know, our relationships with, with other people as well. So it’s about what I found. It’s about balance. And actually, we feel that we have to go after our purpose, and our and our passions with his big heroic efforts. But what if we can do it fun? What if we can do it relax? What if we can do with a sense of ease? And that’s probably been my one of my biggest things is really slowing down and being present to what I’m doing, rather than just going after this. And sometimes I feel this sense of like anxiousness. And incomes, the old you know, the rugby the military, no, go, go, go, go, go. But I know, that works doesn’t work in the long run. So it’s, it’s, in essence, it’s tuning in, as we go through this journey into a different radio station. And that’s our intuition of, you know, our felt sense. So I hope that answered your question. Yes,

Anna Lundberg  

I love that. And again, so many things to unpick and I’ll try to remember all the points, but the three areas I love, and I think when this episode is coming out, I will have just had the episode that I recorded the other day, which was exactly that, to nurture yourself, nurture your family, and then that’s your business. Those are the three things that matter. Ultimately, I have my five hours, I have all sorts of other models. But ultimately, that’s what it comes down to, which I think is really powerful. The dusty shelf imagery is really talks to me as well, I remember, I think it was one of my very best coaches we talked about, you know, I always wanted to be a best selling author living by the sea, or, you know, we have these ambitions. And it was exactly that dream. I’d wanted to be a writer, along with many other unfulfilled you know, also an astronaut, but I think it’s too late for that I’m just not big enough or scientific enough. I’m a bit too claustrophobic some things that you just have to leave on the shelf. And but generally, most of us like to leave those dreams there because it’s safer. And we can just go Oh, yeah, I wanted to be a writer, and we do nothing about it, but we actually have to do is dust it off, take it down, take it apart, it gets messy, you know, it gets difficult, but that’s when we can start putting it together and make it real, right. So that’s another thing that came up. And just also because I thought it was such an important point, which is very deep and almost a whole other topic in itself. But this idea of looking internally, when I first started my coaching, I was always, you know, setting goals and helping coach helping clients set goals, and I had this bucket list and so on. And I feel more and more resistant to that. And I feel like a little as I heard you say looking within you, and you need to be happy whether you score the tribe or not. Right? I’m using rugby terminology. No, of course, it’s amazing. But what I think in business, yes, fantastic if the prospective client says yes, if they achieve this result, if your book is best selling on Amazon, whatever. But you need to also have an inner confidence and satisfaction. If that doesn’t happen. Likewise, of course, if something negative happens, we want to still be able to so it’s almost like smoothing out a little bit of the ups and downs. But I I’m really interested in exploring that and reimagining the success metrics, because it’s still so tempting to go, what are your goals, I’ve got to publish another book. And I’ve got to get another 10,000 followers and all this, but actually hang on a second, but life is what happens in the meantime, right. And I know, first of all, congratulations, he recently got married. So that’s an amazing thing to do as well. And that matters. And whether it’s traveling or having children or you know, whatever other interests are helping your community, those things matter as much. So those were the things that I heard. And then while ago, I asked you the question about the second pivotal moment, which was when you broke free from the training within the big corporate structure still and started out on your own and you talked about leaving those fears, or rather the fears coming out, when you’re suddenly alone? How have you found the confidence? And how have you found the resilience to deal with that up and down that we talked about with the setbacks and with being alone suddenly and not being surrounded by your teammates or you know, that support structure? How have you found the strength and inner belief, I suppose to to keep going and focus on what matters to you?

Adrian Hales  

Yeah, so great question. I think you made a good point there it is about that continuous belief and it’s about that continuously working on on what matters most to us and just and keep going on that path and, and as you know, as a coach, the path to being a coach is always there. We can get distracted, we can move and we can you know get distracted by all the things that are not going to create our dreams or build our coaching business and but the path is always there. I remember when I was a small boy, I was walking in the fields, you know, back in Birmingham with my granddad And I’m sure you’ve had, you know, grandparents or have grandparents and they’ve got this word of wisdom, I remember walking with him. And he used to get me to walk across this long grass, which hadn’t been trodden by anybody else I used to walk off for some time. And then he would say, stop and look back. And I used to stop, and then look back. And I’d saw that I tried this trodden this grass down for say, you know, 100 meters. And he said, it’s important, he said, that’s a really important thing for you to learn that, that everybody will tread the path, people will tread the same path. And don’t always follow the crowd, go and create your own trail, go and create your own path. And in essence, I’d always, you know, I always kind of remembered that. And I think it was really important for me to, to make a meaningful contribution to, to make sure that I went through my own personal transformation as a coach and learn how to coach in order to be able to serve my clients at the deepest level when I started to coach. So that was one of my drivers, my personal transformation, and also very much the the people that I was going to be working with in the future. And if you think about rugby, my driver was Scoring a try, because it felt good. But I was scoring for the people that came to watch. So it’s, it’s a similar, you know, type of parallels. But I think one of the most important things you know, when you’re going on this path, I think it’s very important to get a coach. I think that if we’re going to be a coach, and we haven’t got our own coach, there’s a there’s a bit of incongruence there. So I think it’s an important if we’re looking for people to invest in us as coaches that we also are investing money, you know, as a coach. So, when I first started this journey, I had, you know, mentors and coaches come to me, when I chose to go on this path of building, you know, a coaching business and learning how to coach and my own personal transformation. You all know this, but it’s also very interesting, like, people come out of the woodwork that you know, opportunities, resources, and it kind of helps you as you go on this path. And you do have these moments fears, but I think it’s important to find out your own little practices that work for you. Some of the things that you know, that I’ve tried to make sure that I’m balancing my nervous system, because obviously, we’re facing our fears, we’re going into the unknown, as you said before, going into those places. So we can find familiar places we’ve been, which we know, but then also, places we haven’t. So I think it’s crucial and important to surround yourself and get support and learn from people that have been there. Also get out and coach as much as we can. So we expressing and making a difference. And also having, having like practices that nourish us that keep us going. That creates space for us. So some things that I’ve learned is like kind of chanting like chanting on which balances and regulates your autonomic nervous system. Doing stuff like meditation, doing stuff, like kind of morning pages, where you’re just free journaling, making sure that you have healthy goals set, making sure that you’re able to maintain and manage your boundaries, make, you know, make making sure that you have a vision that you’re you know, you’re living into making sure that you have balanced across your finances and, and, and also your, if you’re getting into the spiritual world, making sure that you’re balanced there, that we’re not going too far off into the spiritual world that we detach ourselves from what needs to be done. So it’s a balance between between the spiritual and coming back into, into into reality because we will have to, you know, earn money and live in that the physical world. So that’s been some other parts of, you know, my journey. And what I found is that when I was you know, in the learning and development world

Adrian Hales  

is that very subtly in the background this this dream was there, which was like, you know, you’re going to start your own coaching business, your transformational, that’s what you’re here to do. And it wasn’t as big like overarching, like megaphone, it was just like this, this subtle, intuitive voice. But then I just ignored that voice, you know, washed it down with another Starbucks and went and had my prep sandwich and just filled myself with all kinds of, you know, rubbish food. And then there’s, there’s, there’s a wake up call, and that was a wake up call for me, which was a, a left this one training job, and I was gonna go into this really high paid like, executive job. And there was a space in there where I had a choice to go after my dreams. And it was just, I had everything set up and it just required me to go into the unknown. I didn’t do it because of fear. And then I chose this other job and I went in that for another kind of couple of years. And then by me doing that over and over again, my body or my spirit or something, had different ideas, and I just ended up leaving this this other job and going completely into the unknown. And then I realized I had everything I needed to, to make it a success. And that doesn’t mean that you’re not going to come through challenges or times when you’re really stressed out. But I think it’s really important to have those rituals that bring you back home to yourself. Like silent meditation is bringing you back home to yourself and the right people externally to help nourish and bring you along. People that you, you know, you trust, to, you know, really help you so.

Anna Lundberg  

And so we followed that kind of quiet voice and intuition. What does that reality look like? Now what you know, who are you working with? What kind of services do you offer? Are you working online in person groups, individuals, businesses?

Adrian Hales  

Yeah, so I follow that intuition. And now I, I started learned, some different type of coaching modalities, if you will, I kind of got into something called Ambit, which is a way of harnessing and aligning your multiple intelligences. So connecting with your heart connecting with your intuition, connecting with your mind, it’s essentially coaching to create alignment. So if we have like dreams, or goals or plans that we’re looking to go after, and we have internal conflicts and, and blocks internally, it’s a way of resolving those and creating, like inner wisdom to then act upon which is aligned with your whole body, your whole system. So I started to get into that kind of that coaching as well as obviously NLP and projective, coaching and ontological. So it becomes a mash of all of those different things I’ve learned along the way. And now I do two things I do and it coach certifications, which is a four day certification where people can come and learn how to communicate, harness and transform the head, heart, and gut. And I also do work with coaches between six and 12 months. And that ends up being three or four different elements, but mainly doing the deeper work to create that alignment to to help them process their fears. And many blocks they have around money and around creating this, creating this vision. So the deeper work, helping them create an aligned vision, it’s really aligned with who they are, but other than this version of success that they think that they should have. And then client creation. So I work with them, helping them learn different ways of the path of service, and how to how to create clients. And then the kind of four thing is helping them go through the personal transformation, and then learn how to then transform and lead other people using different strategies, tools and techniques, so becomes this whole, holistic, holistic view of themselves and their business. So that’s the kind of work that I’m doing now.

Anna Lundberg  

Great. And in terms of, I guess, number of clients you’re working with and days in the week. And so what does that look like if we really drill down into the logistical detail, I suppose?

Adrian Hales  

Yeah, so I think I do like one coaching session a day. So that’s like my, that’s logistics like one coaching session a day and that’s either with a paid client or a prospective client. And so essentially, I do one coaching every single day. And my mornings are cold showers, boxing or training and meditation, silence and journaling. And yeah, just and then just coaching that’s just my my whole life and then just obviously helping coaches to scale and build their business and then planning and bit poach certifications and, and, and connecting with people and either booking inspiring conversations with them like like we had, or, you know, offering coaching conversations. So it’s a combination of all of those different facets and then outside of that is connecting with my wife, I a cup of tea in the morning, we go for walks, we go for cold, like clench swimming’s we go to these big waterfalls, where we jump into cold water together, that kind of bit mad, but we do that and then learning but my learning is, is I only learn intentionally like three or four topics that are going to help me move forward in all the areas that I’m working. So I’m intentional about my my, my learning as well. And then also look to give back so I had some people contact me from, you know, a charity the other day. And you know, I just I chose to do some coaching for them to to help them and get the charity off the ground. So just it’s a combination of all those different things.

Anna Lundberg  

Well, that’s fantastic when you have a business model that’s lucrative enough so that you then have time and energy not just for your wife and for everything else in your life, but also to be able to give back to pro bono causes where they perhaps can’t afford or you want to do that. That’s fantastic. Do you obviously I come from a marketing background, as you may remember and branding. And that’s my sort of sweet spot. I suppose that’s what I often fall back on to? How have you been able to build your presence and become known in this new space? Given that you came from quite a different place? Or have you found? Yeah, putting yourself out there being visible and attracting the right clients?

Adrian Hales  

Yeah, I think it’s a really good point. And obviously, you’ve got a marketing background. And I think marketing is hugely important too. And essentially, my experience of marketing is having a voice to your branding, be able to communicate what you do in a way that works for you. I tried to kind of get into copywriting and all that. So that was just, I just found that challenging, because I’ve got dyslexia and I found more powerful ways, having amazing podcasts like this with you, or then going to contribute to a community where they’re like minded to get into communities and contribute, start adding value and connecting with people that are already built in the communities that you have that interest around. And then 30 and 30, the thing that’s been the most powerful is connecting with people and just coaching. And I found that to really to build a prosperous coaching business, we do that through coaching. And I think there’s, when I first got into this, it was like, I think, you know, business development, and coaching was kind of a separate thing. And now it’s kind of merged into one thing. So my business is built around coaching. And then that enables me to play to my strengths and being in that energy. Whereas I think important to learn sales, but I’ve started to build my business model around service and coaching. So we’re all I’m always inspired and feel good about the, you know, that that work that I’m doing. So that’s been kind of a recipe for success, and then also creating different ways to make some residual income. So we’ve got, you know, couple of two or three different income streams to support, you know, where you’re going. And when you’re building.

Anna Lundberg  

Within coaching, you mean or separate to the coaching,

Adrian Hales  

yeah, separate to coaching. So I’ve got the coaching and then properties and stuff like that. So that’s important to, to be able to, you know, invest in your own property, and, and if, if, if you can, and just those different ways to build that income, because then I’ve got myself, building my coaching business, I’ve got my wife, building her coaching, business, properties and different ways to make those income. So finding something that you really enjoy that you’re passionate about, as well. So creating those different streams. It’s always

Anna Lundberg  

interesting to hear, and it’s enlightening to hear that it’s not just coaching. And as you said, we’re not coaches, that’s not just the only thing we are out with people who coach and there are many other things we do, too, I think, I mean, I don’t just work with coaches. But I imagine there are some coaches listening to the podcast, and most will be familiar then with that kind of prosperous coach approach from Rich Litvin and I have to say, but you know, right off the bat, my journey, and I was so defensive about it, because I came from marketing back when he was like, you don’t need a website, you don’t need marketing. And the truth is, of course, now, 10-15 years later, he has a massive marketing machine behind him, but I love the core of his message. And I have worked with him recently too. And this idea of, as you say, of serving, and even within sales, now people are coming around, it’s about conversations and a lot of adding value and so on, right, it’s not just sliding into people’s DMS and and you know, spamming, and so on, and I love that you said the point about your dyslexia and that you don’t necessarily follow my model, which is amazing. And I have quite a few clients who have similar situation, they say, Oh, I hate social media, or I’m not a writer, I’ve got dyslexia, whatever that is. And it’s so important to recognize that you can find your own authentic way of connecting with people and becoming known and so on, right? Whether you feel more comfortable speaking online or offline, in person, you know, video I found very uncomfortable, but you sort of get used to it right to you some things you can practice some things you just know that you’re never gonna want to do. So you can outsource or you can find your own way. So I think that’s really beautiful to represent that. But there’s no one size fits all marketing formula that people should be adopting. You talked a little bit about your day of the morning, and so on, which sounds really lovely. Specifically, given that your wife has a cage, I’m interested. So my final pillar is about work life integration. And I think where people get confused, because you talk about balance, I prefer integration, people worry that you’re going to blur the boundaries too much. And I wonder given that your wife and you share such passions and you know, within work, I imagine you have different businesses, but you have a lot to talk about. So how do you find navigating that boundary of kind of engaging and sharing those values and passions but still going, okay, that’s business. That’s work and now we’re just, we’re just husband and wife and we love each other. We don’t want to talk about coaching and serving and whatever else.

Adrian Hales  

Yeah. It’s an interesting one because it started inevitably we’re like, we’re not going to talk about anything business development or coaching and then we started talking about it. So I think one of the most important things is having like designated time and space like, right, we’re gonna go and do this event today, or we’re gonna work on this today, or we’re gonna go for a walk, and intentionally like talking about things that matter just outside of coaching, even just watching like TV or documentaries where we can reconnect and disconnect. So that’s, I think that’s simple and then just agreeing, like, obviously, we’re coaches and we’re here to support each other. But just, if there’s any like, kind of like, if it becomes challenging, we talk about it, we just call the elephant in the room, just like this is not talking about coaching, or we’re not talking talking about something else today. And we we do support each other in building our business, but it’s, it’s in life kind of mentoring kind of capacity as well. So just giving each other advice and tips, but it is it is a challenging piece, because it is when you’re so passionate about it and you love what you do. Then, of course, you want to see someone else succeed. So we’ve, what’s made useful, we’ve both got our own coaches, and we’ve both got our own clients. But what we’re starting to find now is actually, that she’s working with a lot of coaches now, and helping them scale their business and I am starting to merge together. So I think we’re probably going to be starting and creating something together at some point. But a simple answer to your question is, is having, you know, if she wants to go to the gym, or it’s important for her to go for a walk, I am, I am then satisfying that need for her. And it is important for me not to talk about coaching or going watching TV or going into this kind of this food in this restaurant, she then also satisfying that for me. So I think what keeps it together is a love of each other.

Anna Lundberg  

Beautiful, so simple, and yet and perhaps difficult as well. But that’s lovely to hear. And that’s exciting that you might have a joint venture as well. Yeah. Speaking of which, what are you focusing on? You talked about being intentional about your learning? What are you focused about learning right now and what’s coming up for you the rest of this year?

Adrian Hales  

Yeah, and I think you’re also a massive advocate for learning as well seem like loads of your, as your books, we share the same passion for that, you know, the love for learning. And now, you mentioned about the prosperous coach approach. I also work with someone called Melissa Ford, who’s come from the Steve Chandler side, and I’m immersed in that community right now. And, you know, she’s my coach, and I work with her. So for the rest of the year, I’m focused on the learning service path and really getting deeper into to client creation, those are like, the main things, those are the main, that’s the main area that I’m focusing on. That’s and then the second one is really about who we’re being so I’m following very much around rooted spyera to the non dual understanding so it’s really about that we are the we’re a being who’s aware of our experience and being more in that be more in the moment. And it’s very powerful kind of learning so that that piece of Rupert’s spire piece, and then obviously I’m doing an n bit and CO certification this year. So, you know, anything around like kind of somatic coaching, Ontological Coaching, anything that leans towards that are revisiting NLP books, just as refreshers, that’s mainly where I’m spending all my time.

Anna Lundberg  

Amazing. And if there is a coach listening or would be coached, who’d like to learn more about what you do, where can we find you?

Adrian Hales  

Yeah, so just use LinkedIn. So agent Hales, LinkedIn, you’ll see me I’ve got a white shirt on and kind of like, you know, like a Tintin haircut.

Anna Lundberg  

Okay, things have changed, I’m also connected. Thankfully, they can find you, via me as well. But that’s great. And that’s obviously how we found each other to LinkedIn. That’s working for you. Such a pleasure, so many more directions, we could have taken this and so much to share and to keep riffing on I suppose really looking forward to staying in touch with you. And I know there was so much value there for for the listeners as well. So thank you so much.

Adrian Hales  

Cheers. And I you know, I appreciate your energy and your questioning and your curiosity as well. And, you know, and all the points that you brought into the conversation, so hopefully, all the people listening will get a lot of value from that.

Anna Lundberg  

Absolutely. Thank you, Adrian. 

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