Episode 291 The Power to Speak with Jackie Goddard

reimagining-success-with-jackie-goddard-anna-lundberg

Discover Jackie Goddard’s journey from acting and fashion to founding ‘Power to Speak’ and redefining success, as she shares her pivotal career moments with Anna Lundberg.

jackie-goddard-profileIn this week’s episode, Anna speaks to Jackie Goddard about the various pivots in her career, from fashion to acting to coaching and speaking.

Together, they dive into the art of crafting meaningful content for speaking engagements. They discuss the importance of believing in and being comfortable with your material, aiming to deliver relevant and valuable content to the audience rather than just creating noise.

Jackie shares insights from her daily routine, which includes writing, organising her live podcast, and working with clients both in person and via Zoom. She provides valuable advice on overcoming nervousness when speaking and emphasises the significance of being open, curious, and engaging in your delivery.

Anna and Jackie both reflect on their personal definitions of success, focusing on credibility, respect, and recognition, rather than fame or monetary gain. Jackie shares her unique journey from aspiring actor to fashion designer, and how motherhood and a need for career pivot during lockdown led her to establish “Power to Speak,” a business dedicated to building confidence in public speaking.

Tune in as we explore how to reframe public speaking as a positive, engaging, and confidence-building experience.

You can connect with Jackie on her website and LinkedIn.

00:00 Jackie runs power to speak, and coaches actors.

03:14 Childhood play and creativity spurred acting career.

07:18 Struggled to find fashion and textiles course.

11:17 Embarrassed listening, actor’s advice, light bulb moment.

15:31 Shocked by costume choice for historical role.

17:36 Acting in rep season: dark, challenging, unfeasible.

20:50 Ambition for acting, fashion and rethinking success.

24:10 Valuing writing over fame and recognition.

26:50 Support crucial after husband’s death, pursuing creativity.

31:07 Help individuals express and value their experiences.

35:36 Preference for in-person work, though adaptable.

38:08 Memorising won’t work, tell a story.

40:19 Audience reflects speaker’s emotions, impacting performance.

42:57 Find a flagship story for consistent presentations.

*Resources mentioned during the episode*
1:1 Coaching & Mentoring – If you’re looking for one-to-one support to help you achieve your specific life and business goals, Anna has a limited number of spots for individual coaching and mentoring. www.onestepoutside.com/coaching

Power to Speak

Anna Lundberg:

Hello, everyone, and welcome to this month’s interview. I’m here with Jackie Goddard and we met, well, in fact, we met a few months ago. It’s been a recent addition to my repertoire, but I’ve recently discovered this group called you are the Media, which is local to Poole, which is fantastic. So I’ve been going to a couple of the lunch clubs that the amazing Mark Masters runs and a few weeks ago, and I hope some of you listening were there and hopefully I met you too. Mark ran an in person event at the Lighthouse Theatre here in Poole and we were really excited to host a couple of hundred people in our lovely little community here. And the night before that big event, Jackie spoke about her story and of course I’d heard a little hint of it before, but I immediately jumped at her, sorry, Jackie, to ask her to come on the podcast and share more. So enough of me talking. Jackie, I’d love to hear from you. Can you please introduce yourself and tell us briefly at first and then we’ll dig into it. What have you been doing in the past and what are you doing today?

Jackie Goddard:

Hi, I’m Jackie, obviously. I run Power to Speak, which I founded about three years ago now, and I get people excited about stepping on stages and speaking to their audience. I have an acting background. I trained as an actor many years ago, and I use my techniques, the techniques that I learned as being trained as an actor with my clients now, because I find that everything that I learned back then is kind of fundamental to us just communicating with clarity and building rapport and finding out about motivations and stuff. So that’s a little bit about my background in that I came from an acting background. I taught and still am an acting coach. So I started out working with kids and then progressed to adults when I realised that actually adults would still have as much fun doing that sort of stuff as the kids did. And now, having sort of pivoted in lockdown, I’m now working one to one and with teams to just build their confidence around speaking to an audience.

Anna Lundberg:

I love how you phrased that at the beginning to get people excited about getting on stage because there’s that classic phrase that, you know, speaking in front of people is more scary than death and so on. And I love the reframing of that to make it something that is positive not just to survive, but really to enjoy the experience.

And so to go back and I also, I mean, there are a couple of really interesting aspects about this. And first of all, and I’ve shared this with you. And in my very limited way, I had similar ambitions to, you know, tread the board, is that expression, to be on stage, to act. And I find it so fascinating when we have these quite simple sort of black and white job titles that we think of as a child. I’m going to be a veterinarian or a doctor or an astronaut or a superhero or an actor. And it turns out, of course, there are so many nuanced ways in which we can use those skills and have a channel for the ambitions that we had that we just wouldn’t have been aware of when we were younger. But if we could go back to the beginning, I suppose. What was your goal initially? I believe you spoke to the careers advisors.

So you tell the audience a little bit about that experience as the first pivotal moment in your career?

Jackie Goddard:

Yeah, I mean, as a child, I in the playground, and this is where my. My talk started that you saw a couple of weeks back was that when I was in the playground, it’s kind of what I did was I made up stories. I got all of my friends to sort of come and join in. I wrote them, I starred in them, you know, these little plays that then we would perform to the class at the end of the week or I would put on in my garden or, you know, the front of my house. And that kind of progressed and I just expected that I was going to be an actor. That’s what I was, that’s what I did. It’s what I got praised for by teachers, parents, friends. Everybody loved this kind of side of me that was creative, I suppose, and made up stories, told people stories.

Jackie Goddard:

And so that’s kind of what I thought I should be. So when I went to my career as teacher, age 16, and sat in an office with this woman I’d never met before, and said, she said, what do you want to do? And I said, I want to be an actor. And she. Well, she looked at me very strangely to start with. Anyway, it was a grammar school and the arts were. Weren’t exactly sort of the, sort of top of the list of things to do. And she sort of asked me a few questions, you know, did I belong to a theatre group, a drama group? And I said, no, I lived a long way from the school, so I couldn’t really do after school clubs. And she asked if I went to the theatre very often.

Jackie Goddard:

And I said, well, I’d been to a pantomime, but no, not really. And she said, had I been in any school plays? And I think I’d been in one at that point. And she just kind of looked to one side and looked at me, you know, a bit skew whiff and said, you don’t want to be an actor. She said, if you wanted to be an actor, you’d live, die and breathe the theatre. What else can you do? And I just went, oh, I’m not bad at art. And that was it. I went off to, I went off to art school, which was great. I loved art and I was, you know, good at drawing and it was something I enjoyed.

Jackie Goddard:

But just in that moment, all of my, all of my ambitions to be an actor and everything that I thought I was going to be kind of, you know, fell by the wayside because as a 16 year old, I just didn’t really have that confidence to think that I could do something that I was being told that actually, no, that wasn’t, it’s not a proper job. You can’t do that. And I just went, yeah, okay.

Anna Lundberg:

Yeah, it’s very interesting that then art was the next one because, you know, are told that that wouldn’t be a proper job. And that whole creative industry is something that people are often turned away from. So we end up in a proper job studying geography and chemistry and going into banking, whatever it is. So it’s so sad. As someone now who supports people with career decisions, looking back at that moment, the careers services, I think, at our schools have in general failed us. I hope it’s changed, but I’m not sure.

Jackie Goddard:

I would hope so. I would hope so. It was a long time ago and as I say, it was a grammar school, so I don’t know, they were kind of pushing for people to go to Oxford and Cambridge. It was that, it was that kind of environment. So to want to go to drama school wasn’t really what they wanted of their students. Art school, I suppose, was, was slightly better. I mean, you could, you could, I don’t even know back then. I’m talking back in the eighties, I don’t know whether, whether they did a degree in, in drama, I assume they must have done, but they certainly did in art.

Jackie Goddard:

So I think it was, I think that was what they were aiming for, was to go for the, for the degree.

Anna Lundberg:

And, and where did you see your future? Were you thinking then, okay, I’m going to be an artist, I’m going to work in art? What were you thinking sort of as the next step after that?

Jackie Goddard:

Well, the next step was fashion design, as you do. Um, obviously, I loved colour and I love drawing clothes. I loved illustrating. I you know, I even made kids clothes, you know, like, clothes for my dolls when I was little, like, hand sewn stuff. So that seemed to be the next logical step. So I went to. I went and did a course. I tried to get onto a fashion course, but it was.

Jackie Goddard:

I was trying to find something that had textile involved as well. And bizarrely, you would think the two went together like, you know, bread and butter. But I couldn’t find a course that did fashion and textiles together. You either did fashion or you did textiles. And the only one I could find was in Worthing, and it wasn’t a degree, it was an HND. So I ended up going off to Worthing, which I’m a Londoner, so I can remember getting on the train at Victoria and a train to Worthing and not knowing where I would. Where in the country I was going. So I got off the train in worthing.

Jackie Goddard:

I went for the interview. Oh, no, no, I went to the college and I’d missed the interview. I was late. And they said, well, you’ll have to come back. We’ll fit you in at the end. He said, you’ve got, like, an hour, an hour and a half. And I said, well, what can I do? And he said, well, you can go to the beach. And I went, the beach? There’s a beach? I had no idea that I was even anywhere near the sea.

Jackie Goddard:

So, yeah, I ended up in Worthing, and I suppose now I live by the sea now. So obviously something that stuck with me.

Anna Lundberg:

Absolutely. I’m curious. Your friends from school, did you. Do you know where they ended up? Did they follow more traditional path?

Jackie Goddard:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don’t think there’s. There was only one other girl in my school that I knew that went to the grammar school, because it wasn’t. It certainly wasn’t the feeder school from my primary school. So all of my friends went off to the local comprehensive and, you know, went into other jobs. I haven’t kept in touch with lots of them, I have to admit, but, yeah, I think generally they went into regular jobs. Yeah.

Anna Lundberg:

And so that wasn’t the last that you did of acting. So how did that come back into your life?

Jackie Goddard:

Well, I suppose I did five years in fashion as a designer. I ended up in the high street end, so, like, in what you call the rag trade. So I was. I was manufacturing. I was working for manufacturers and we were supplying. I was designing for, through them, for top shop, Miss Selfridge, River Island. H and M. I want to say hennies.

Jackie Goddard:

It was called Hennies. Back then. But it was just such an awful business to be in, you know, that I was. I was being expected to. Theyd fly me off to Europe and go to Paris and Dusseldorf and Frankfurt and all of that, looking at the shows. But basically, I was just expected to copy what was on the catwalk and reproduce it for the high street, which to me wasn’t what I was, what I was meant to be doing. So after about five years, I thought, no, this isn’t for me. This really is not what I want to be doing.

Jackie Goddard:

And so I left. And my friend, a best friend that I’d made at college, had also kind of become disillusioned with the fashion business and moved across into the Royal Shakespeare Company at the Barbican. So she. In London. So she was working in the wardrobe department, and she got me a job there as a dresser, which, you know, was just a nice little part time job. I was covering somebody, but I was dressing these fabulous actors. And so I ended up walking into the Barbican to the Royal Shakespeare Company and just feeling like I’d come home, you know, just. I was obviously small fry, just part of the cog that puts on these amazing productions that the RSC do.

Jackie Goddard:

And, yeah, I just loved it. And it was sort of talking to the actors, watching the actors, being in technical rehearsals with directors like Peter hall and writers like Peter Schaffer and, I mean, yeah, actors. I dressed Judi Dench and Toby Stevens was lots of different actors. But it was something that Toby Stevens said in a quick change that I had with him. He had been. He’d been simulating sex under a sheet with an actress called Monica Dolan. And it was. I was.

Jackie Goddard:

I was mortified for them listening to them going at it under this sheet and thinking, how do they do that without just dying of embarrassment? You know, I knew that if I. If I was an actor, I would just. I would. I just couldn’t see how I could get over that embarrassment of, you know, standing in front of an audience and doing something that was really out of. Out of my comfort zone. And so when he came out for a quick change, I asked him how he did that, and he said, if you don’t believe what the audience are saying, if you don’t believe what you’re doing, the audience won’t believe it either. And that, for me, was a bit of a light bulb moment. And that was when it kind of.

Jackie Goddard:

I kind of went, oh, that’s how you do it, you know, it’s not about pretending to be someone else. It’s not about pretending to play, you know, that. That character. It’s about being them. It’s about finding the truth and the honesty in who they are, what motivates them, why they do what they do. And that was it. Then I applied for drama school, and I went off to drama school, thought, yeah, I’m going to be. I’m going to do it.

Jackie Goddard:

By then, I was practically 30. So, yeah, I’d left it a little bit late, but.

Anna Lundberg:

Oh, yeah, I mean, there’s all those memes now on instagram showing how these incredibly successful people started late. And I’d say 30 isn’t even that late now. Closer to a few decades beyond that, so. And it’s so great to feel that you can. I had a friend who worked in marketing with me, and she retrained to be a doctor. Oh, wow. Years ago. But I hope by now she’s.

Anna Lundberg:

I’ve sadly lost touch. But, you know, she’s sort of on track there. And it’s so interesting because I would have easily said, oh, there’s no point in doing that now. It’s such a long race training, but, you know, it’s never too late. Is that kind of cliche? But perhaps true.

Jackie Goddard:

Yeah.

Anna Lundberg:

So you finally followed your dream. What happened next?

Jackie Goddard:

What happened next? I went with some friends that I’d made at drama college. We went. We. We sort of put a band together, so to speak, and one of our tutors wrote a play. It was a four hander, and we took it to Edinburgh and. And that was quite an experience. And I loved that. I was a bit homesick, I have to say.

Jackie Goddard:

It was about three weeks in. In Edinburgh, working really, really hard, and. Yeah, but I did enjoy it. I loved being part of the fringe and what was going on up there, but it was very expensive, obviously. We produced it ourselves. We put it on ourselves. We were in a place called the Bedlam Theatre, which was an old church. I think it was actually owned by the university and run by the students.

Jackie Goddard:

The actual sort of fringe event that we were part of. But we had, like, an hour and a half slot. I think the play was about an hour and 20 minutes. We might have had a two hour slot, but we had to set up that. We had to set the setup, do the play, take the set down and get out before the next. Before the next play came in. So. So, yeah, and you literally are just.

Jackie Goddard:

You spend the whole day flyering and leafletting and trying to get people in, then you sort of go and set it up and then you take it down and then. Oh, yeah, it was exhausting, but that was great. We bought that back to London and did that in some of the fringe venues down here, pubs, basically, and. And then after that, we did another one. We did another play, which was just a two hander, so just me and another woman, just the two of us, which was fun. That was called mopsy, flopsy and death. Yeah. But they were great.

Jackie Goddard:

And what I loved about that was that we had a hand. Apart from writing it, we actually, as a sort of a little team, produced it completely. So it was. And they were new characters, they’d never been played before, so it was really just an opportunity to really dig down into those characters and find out who they were and not have any kind of background from any other actors having played them before. So that was great fun. Yeah. So I basically did some fringe stuff. I then worked with a company that I didn’t know anybody, I didn’t know the director, the designer, and ended up in a pub in west London playing the duchess, step duchess, in a Revengers tragedy, which is a jacobean play.

Jackie Goddard:

And I loved that. It was the language and it was amazing. But as you’ll probably remember from the talk that I gave the other night, because although I don’t have any pictures, any real pictures from the day, I was quite gobsmacked when the designer, who I thought was going to obviously put us in this fantastic jacobean 17th century outfits, I was really looking forward to that for some reason, because the stepduchess was such a. Such a. I don’t want to be rude, but she was having an affair with her bastard, her husband’s bastard son, and for this particular scene, they decided to dress me in a boiler suit and I would be wearing a strap on, which, you know, it’s not what you would expect from a jacobean society lady.

Anna Lundberg:

Quite disappointing. But I’m a bit of a traditionalist. Whenever I see a Shakespeare pair, it’s been modernised, you know, I want Midsummer night’s dream to look like. I don’t want them wearing jackets and whatever.

Jackie Goddard:

Absolutely.

Anna Lundberg:

I would have been slightly surprised to see that, too, but there you go. Great.

Jackie Goddard:

Yeah. And, you know, and as an actress, it’s part of, you know, you kind of think, oh, great, somebody’s going to dress me. How fantastic. But, yeah, that was quite. It was a bit of a shock, I think. Probably a shock to the audience, as when I suddenly jumped out from the wings, because this reality of the glamour.

Anna Lundberg:

Of acting doesn’t quite hold true. Although meeting Judi Dench and all these people sounds incredible. But, of course, maybe the day to day experience becomes like any job.

Jackie Goddard:

Yeah. Especially if you are in. And this was the other thing, actually, when it came to the crunch, when it came to thinking about actually doing the job itself, I knew from working at the Barbican that they were long days. They were. You know, you were working six evenings a week, two matinees. I mean, during technical rehearsals, the Barbican. We were in the pit theatre. I was working in the pit theatre, which is like seven floors underground.

Jackie Goddard:

It was like you go weeks without actually seeing daylight, especially in the winter. You know, you’d arrive. You’d arrive in the dark and you’d go home in the dark and there were no windows. So, yeah, it was. And I know a lot of those actors were in rep, so they were doing three different plays at the same time in rotation, and they might be living away from home in digs. And so, yeah, the reality of acting is it’s fun. I’d love to have been able to at least have an opportunity to do a proper rep season, but actually, I was married, I had a mortgage, I had a dog, I was trying for a baby. And it just wasn’t conducive, really, apart from the fact that, obviously, to get a paying job is quite difficult.

Jackie Goddard:

So, yeah, it kind of. Something had to give.

Anna Lundberg:

That’s interesting from sort of a work life balance perspective, thinking about that. It’s not something.

Jackie Goddard:

Yeah.

Anna Lundberg:

I mean, even if you’re on a big Hollywood film, you know, you’re away for months. I worked with a physiotherapist who was on the big bond films and things, and they kept delaying production. Her entire sort of future was on hold. She couldn’t really take on clients because she thought she was going to head off to the location at some point, but she. Then it kept getting moved and it all.

Jackie Goddard:

Yes.

Anna Lundberg:

So it sounds, again, very, you know, Daniel Craig on your massage table sounds very exciting. But then opticality said the business model implications and so on was quite complicated.

Jackie Goddard:

Well, you are. You are talking to the daughter of a stuntman. So, you know, he. My dad was away for most of my childhood, so, yeah, we could never plan family holiday because the job would come up and he’d be gone, you know, he’d be out on location, off on location. And we were at school, me and my sister, so it was difficult to go. We did go away on location a couple of times, but, yeah, he was. He was off doing bonds and all. Of the other sort of big films that were going on that did take him away for months on end.

Jackie Goddard:

So I kind of knew that that was, that was kind of what I was signing up to. And I suppose maybe that as well, you know, with my husband, who was, you know, a regular guy having a regular job, it was, yeah, it was difficult to sort of have those conversations that, you know, I might be away for a few months.

Anna Lundberg:

Although we should say you were also in Robin Hood, Prince of thieves, weren’t you? Was that the film? Yes, but keep an eye out for Jackie if you go on.

Jackie Goddard:

I’ve never seen myself in it, so.

Anna Lundberg:

Oh, you’ve not? Okay. Have you looked? I don’t think I’ll find you if you can’t find it. No, but, you know, you’re in there.

Jackie Goddard:

Yeah, I was in there. I was on there for three months. I was working on it and, yeah, not even a glimpse of me.

Anna Lundberg:

But that still sounds very exciting to me.

Jackie Goddard:

It was fun.

Anna Lundberg:

So I’ve quite selfishly spent a lot of time understanding this sort of twist in terms of the career. And also I think it’s very important. But if we look at, if we take a step back and look at this, how has your definition of success evolved? I think it evolves, as we said now, over lifestyle and life cycle seasons when we’re single versus married, kids, no kids, want to travel, etc. And so on. But sort of from that moment of when you said, yeah, of course I’m going to be an actress, to the various twists and turns. How has that view of what success looks like for you involved?

Jackie Goddard:

Well, I suppose the, the ambition of being an actor back when I was certainly, I don’t know when I was a child, whether it was, whether it was about fame, but certainly as I was sort of getting older, I was thinking, well, if I, if I make it, I will. And same with fashion. I can remember thinking, well, I’ll always make money because I’ll be doing a, you know, I’ll be working in a profession that, that pays good money and not realising how hard it was to break into either, at that kind of level. And so, yeah, you, you kind of have to rethink what your values are around success and money and whether it’s money or whether it’s which, you know, maybe it might have been back then, but then, as you say, once you’re into family and having kids and school runs and all of that, I mean, you know, like most women, I put a, not that I put my career on hold, but I certainly scaled down what I was doing. So that’s when I really started sort of running after school clubs for kids, acting, coaching, that kind of thing. So then once she was, my daughter was sort of old enough to look after herself, I suppose, and the pressure was off in that kind of way, then I sort of started rethinking, okay, well, what can I do now? And then, obviously, when lockdown happened, it was a bit of a pivot, and I thought, well, I don’t really want to go back to that. This has been an opportunity for me to really reevaluate. So that’s how power to speak came about, because at that point, I was thinking, right, well, I don’t want to go back to being a jobbing drama tutor or, you know, acting.

Jackie Goddard:

Not acting, coaching. I’m still doing that and still loving it. But it’s something needed to change in order for me to look at being a successful business, which is what I really wanted. When I started power to speak, I’d done a coaching course in lockdown and thought, well, it is to do with coaching. It’s not just about teaching. It’s about actually coaching and getting people to a level where they’re. They’re feeling confident to actually step in front of an audience, even if that’s just one on one, you know, being able to tell people who they are and what they do confidently and comfortably. So I knew I wanted to start a business doing that.

Jackie Goddard:

So in that way, I was. I’m looking now to be successful in that arena. And that, to me, now looks like credibility and respect in my field to. To be successful, to be asked on podcasts, to be asked for my opinion, to be valued as somebody that’s had all of this experience. And I do. I feel successful because I’m kind of getting to that point now where the business is three years old. I’ve been promoting it, networking, appearing on my own podcast, on other people’s podcasts, working with people, getting referrals, getting testimonials. All of that builds your confidence and makes you kind of validates what you’re doing.

Jackie Goddard:

And that, to me, is success. And I just want that to get bigger and better, really.

Anna Lundberg:

And that really resonates for me and I think for a lot of my clients that we don’t necessarily want that fame that you talked about as much as when I was younger, too, I probably had some romantic ideal of what that looked like when I wanted to be a writer. You think of sort of JK Rowling or Stephen King and bestseller lists and so on. But actually, what do I want to do? I want to write. I want to hold a book in my hands that I know I’ve written and that’s what I love. Of course, it would be nice to have lots of people buy the books, but that’s a secondary angle from there. And to have that credibility and respect and authority, I think, now, is something that we aspire to. It doesn’t have to be fame on a broad scale, sort of insta fame. It’s about within your industry, your niche, your audience, that people see you as a respected figure.

Anna Lundberg:

And I think that’s a much more attainable ambition to have, as well as a very respectable one.

Jackie Goddard:

Yes. I mean, funnily enough, in the talk that I gave at failed nights that you saw in my kind of roundup at the end, in my conclusion, there was one line that I missed, which was because the whole talk was so I didn’t win an Oscar. Did I fail because it was all about, obviously, failures and talking about being an actor and not really succeeding in that way, that I’d kind of, as you say, in that kind of romantic sense of. Of succeeding as an actor. And actually, the line that I missed basically said it wasn’t about the Oscar. And actually what it was about was about the respect. Having the respect from the people. Having the respect and recognition from the people that I respect and recognise.

Jackie Goddard:

And that could be my parents, my daughter, family, friends and peers. But actually, I still have time to win an Oscar. It might not be in acting, but it will be for something that I’ve created and that something of value to the world, you know, and something that’s worth sharing. So, actually, what I’m looking for now is something that I can give back that is of value to me, that’s success, you know, and that recognition from people that I recognise, you know, that that’s what’s important to me now, I think.

Anna Lundberg:

And it sounds like you’ve been very resilient and confident through those twists and turns, from being told that, oh, no, you shouldn’t be an actress at quite a young age, you know, you have found your way back to that and you’ve gone from strength to strength. You’ve gone to drama school in the end and you’ve had your successes a long way. So what has helped you to maintain that self belief and kind of pick yourself up when things haven’t quite worked out as you hope they would?

Jackie Goddard:

I think having support around you is really important. You know, my husband unfortunately died a few years back. Now, so I’ve not got him anymore. But he was an incredible support. You know, when I was off doing, going off to the fringe and going through all of this, he kind of knew that I wasn’t going to be easy to live with if I wasn’t actually doing something that I wanted to do. And my family as well, you know, my parents have been incredibly supportive as well, and, and I think it’s just that kind of striving to be, to be something that’s, I want to say, different, to do something that’s a little bit unusual. I’ve always kind of felt that I wanted to do something that wasn’t quite normal. And that kind of creativity that I have and that I think everybody has, it’s just I have decided to use that.

Jackie Goddard:

That’s what I want to use to be doing day in, day out. It needs to be creative because that’s what lights me up. That’s what makes me happy. And I think that’s, that kind of resilience comes from the fact that alongside people obviously being my cheerleaders, having those behind me, it’s just that, that kind of need that I have to be creative and to always do something that’s, that’s going to make me happy.

Anna Lundberg:

And that’s kind of a red thread or an umbrella theme over the fashion, the art, the drama, what you’re doing now.

Jackie Goddard:

Yeah.

Anna Lundberg:

And you mentioned coming on podcast and obviously you’re speaking and so on. So how else are you bringing your personal brand to life? How are you building your business in terms of visibility and having the right people find out about you?

Jackie Goddard:

I want to get on more stages, going back to, I mean, obviously talking to people and working with people that need to get in front of audiences that want to get on stages, want to do a TED talk, want to, you know, or teams that are selling and pitching. I’m helping them get excited about stepping on stage ages and, and I, and I’ve kind of got the bug myself now, I suppose. But a lot of that, actually, I did a creative writing and english literature degree with the Open University, which I graduated two years ago. Congratulations. Thank you. Took me about seven years to do, obviously part time, but I love doing that. And so I do write a lot. So a lot of what I speak about starts with the writing.

Jackie Goddard:

So it’s that kind of getting the thoughts out of your head and onto a piece of paper and then sort of crafting them into something that would resonate with an audience from a stage or, you know, to a group of people, a kind of, you know, I want to say thought. It’s not thought leadership, but it’s just using what I’ve written as a way of speaking to an audience.

Anna Lundberg:

Well, I was going to say thought leadership because it’s one of those phrases that’s been overused and sort of. It doesn’t sound so appealing anymore, but that’s what it is. And I find there’s this pressure to be on that content creation hamster wheel and that, oh, I’ve got to comment. I’ve got to post this. And actually it just becomes vacuous and I’m not really saying anything. Whereas if you can take the time to thoughtfully craft. Okay, these are the points I want to make and, you know, write those as articles or newsletters or whatever that looks like, and then you have something to say. I think that’s much more compelling than this desperate.

Jackie Goddard:

Yeah.

Anna Lundberg:

Need or urge to write something, and then we just become sort of noise rather than actually having, you know, standing for something. This is my flag and this is what I believe and this is what I want to speak to you about.

Jackie Goddard:

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I’ve literally just written an article which I’ve not put out yet. I do a programme called get your story straight coaching programme. And actually, I’ve realised all the way through working with the clients that I work with, that actually, I would say about 70% of the work that I do with them has nothing to do with their voice and the way that they speak. It’s all to do with the content. It’s all to do with what they are speaking about and whether they believe it. Going back to Toby Stevens at the RSC, if they don’t believe what they’re saying, their audience won’t believe it either.

Jackie Goddard:

So a lot of the work that I do is about getting all of that out of their heads onto a piece of paper so that they can craft it, so that they can see the value in their own experiences, which we don’t, because they stay in our heads and they go round and round and they kind of get buried and we find our own experiences unworthy. Whereas as an outsider, I look at them and I hear the stories and I get them to tell me this, and how did that happen? And why are you doing this? And, you know, goes back to the playground. What were you doing in the playground? All of those things are important to why they do what they’re doing now. And if they want to get on a stage or in front of an audience and speak with clarity about what they do, then it has to start with that. We have to get those stories out. And a lot of what I do is just to be that outsider that says, actually, that’s really interesting that you learned from that. Your audience will learn from that, too, and find those stories that they can really speak about. Because once they’ve done that, they’re comfortable with their own content.

Jackie Goddard:

So when they are speaking for a video, for a YouTube video, or, you know, on an, on a stage in front of 200 people, they, they’re comfort. They’re not just confident with what they’re saying, but they’re comfortable with what they’re saying. What, what they’re saying, which, you know, half the time then, because everybody comes to me about, oh, get rid of my nerves. I feel so nervous. It’s, I would just get comfortable with what you’re saying. And actually, you won’t. You will be excited because you’ve got something worth sharing.

Anna Lundberg:

I remember someone said to me back when I was doing big corporate presentations, you know, I think reframing that. I thought subconsciously that I was there to prove that I am expert and answer every question correct. And that was sort of some impossible measure of success. And it just put so much pressure on me to answer every question. You can’t possibly do that right. And you’re losing sight of the fact that, hang on. Who’s the audience? What do they need to know? What are the few key points and stories? What do I want them to walk away from? And it just, you know, I certainly don’t do it perfectly, but just some reframes like that can really shift how you approach the whole thing. And then at the end of the day, it doesn’t matter, you know, if I stumble over some words or if I don’t know the answers, it’s really the connection, the message and what they walk away with.

Jackie Goddard:

It’s always about the audience. It’s never about you. I spoke to, do you know John Burkhart? That was, he was at the creator day, and he’s a keynote speaker. He’s obviously done lots and lots of speaking. And I was talking to him for my podcast, and he basically said, the audience don’t care about you. They really don’t care about you. All they care about is what you can do for them. So if you’re on stage speaking, just make sure that everything that you are saying is relevant to them, because not only you may well validate something that they’re going through themselves, but if they feel they’re being listened to, if you’re resonating with them, they feel like they’re being listened to.

Jackie Goddard:

They’ll be more drawn to you, they’ll want to hear more, they’ll want to come up afterwards and ask you questions. They’ll want to connect with you because you’ve built that connection, because you’ve thought about them, not about yourself.

Anna Lundberg:

And that takes. I mean, that takes a lot of pressure off as well. Right. So, yeah, put the focus on someone else.

Jackie Goddard:

Yeah, absolutely.

Anna Lundberg:

And so what does a typical. Is there such a thing as a typical day, typical week for you? It sounds like you’re. You’re juggling quite a few different projects and working with.

Jackie Goddard:

Lots of people say, yes. Yeah, no, there isn’t. I just. There isn’t a typical day. Having said that, I do seem to spend a lot of time sat with my laptop on my lap either, batting posts and comments and. And all of that writing. I do. I do spend quite a lot of time writing.

Jackie Goddard:

I do a live podcast myself on a Tuesday, which obviously I need to organise. So, yeah, typical day really is just get. I like to do a bit of yoga in the morning. So I get up, I do a little bit of yoga, I look at my social media, then I go and get dressed and then I come down and start. I mean, obviously if I’ve got client work, then I might well be out of the house early, but if I’m not, I’ll sit down with my laptop and. And do whatever it is. My newsletter comes out every couple of weeks, so I’m either writing the newsletter or writing a blog or editing a podcast.

Anna Lundberg:

And is your client work all in person then, or do you do some things, some coaching?

Jackie Goddard:

I like it when it’s in person. It doesn’t have to be. I do lots of work on Zoom and actually those people that I’ve worked with will know the sight of me in my living room with my. With a garden table on top of my coffee table with the laptop pointed at my wall with a one size bits of paper that we do these big sort of brainstorming mind maps on to get all those stories out. So yes, I could very easily work on Zoom, but there’s nothing quite like being in person, getting in a room with somebody and really sort of doing the breathing exercises and the warm up and then getting them to sort of really get into what it is that they’re talking about.

Anna Lundberg:

And I suppose if I can pick your brain for the audience, if someone is nervous about wanting to do a bit more speaking, you know, virtually certainly is different. I feel quite comfortable here now. But getting on stage, funnily enough, is something I haven’t been doing as often, so that becomes a different challenge. On the other hand, doing an engaging keynote on virtual and Zoom is also challenging in its own way. So if somebody is looking to do more speaking and feel a bit nervous about that, what little tips could you give us today?

Jackie Goddard:

Well, always think about the audience. As we’ve said, make sure the talk that you’re giving or what you’re talking about is of benefit to them. But also make sure that you’re comfortable with it, that you believe it exactly as you’ve just said. So many people get on a stage because they think they need to be seen as an expert. But you don’t ever want to be the cleverest person in the room. You know, every day is a school day. You want to be open and curious. And so the more open and curious you can be as a speaker, the better speaker you will be.

Jackie Goddard:

If you go into a networking space and you’ve got to give, you know, you’ve got to deliver your 62nd elevator pitch or whatever, do it from. From a point of view of sharing. You know, it’s. You’re not selling, you’re sharing information and then follow it up with a question. Always ask people questions about themselves, because, again, you’re validating them, you’re making them feel special. That’s what makes them think you’re special, which is a bit counterintuitive, but it kind of works that way because you’re flattering them, but you’re giving them time. So if you want to get on more stages, make sure you’re comfortable with what it is that you’re talking about. Don’t.

Jackie Goddard:

And again, this is the article, I should just. I’ll link you to the article because this is exactly what I’m writing about at the moment, is that don’t write everything down and then memorise it, because that’s not going to work anyway. You know, for a ten minute talk, you need about a thousand words, and that you. Unless you’re a real actor actor, you’re not going to learn a thousand words to speak as a monologue. Plus, we don’t. We write a lot more formally than we speak. So even if you did memorise it and manage to regurgitate it, it won’t sound like you, it will sound odd, monotonous, like a robot. So what you need to do is get all the information out that you need to get out, work out what the flow is if you’ve only got ten minutes to be speaking in, what’s the flow? What’s the journey you want to take your audience on? What are the points? You know, what are the points that you really need to get them to take away and hang a story on those? So when you find the story, and it could be from your own experience, but it doesn’t have to be.

Jackie Goddard:

But generally, when you’ve got a story, you won’t forget it. So it doesn’t have to be a long story, but it’s just something that illustrates the point you’re trying to make. If you’re telling your own story, you won’t forget it. You won’t be judged by it because you’re being honest. And that’s when you kind of evoke emotion from the audience because you’re relaying something, you’re making them feel something, and you can’t. It’s very, very difficult to tell a story in a monotone voice. So automatically when you tell a story, the voice goes up and down. You get that vocal variety and pitch and tone and all of those things in there.

Jackie Goddard:

So, yeah, get it all out of your head, work out what points you need to hit, and then find a story that you can hang on those points that will really illustrate them and then have fun, enjoy it.

Anna Lundberg:

And I think that comes full circle to where we started, as you said, getting people excited about it. Because why? Why speak if it’s going to be a drudgery, if it’s just like any job, as we said, if we’re not making it fun, then. And why do it? So I love that reminder of, it’s not about you, it’s the audience, but also it is.

Jackie Goddard:

And also the audience will mirror how you’re feeling. So if you step on a stage and you are feeling nervous and you’re visibly shaking, then the audience feel terrible for you. I mean, they want to switch off. They don’t want to see that. But if you can walk on. And Shelley Rossland, fabulous example, who was speaking at creator Day, I worked with her on her talk, and she worked so hard, and then I could see soon as she got up there, because she’s not a speaker. She’s not, she’s not really done it, done that on a big stage before. She kind of stumbled in the beginning and it really threw her.

Jackie Goddard:

But because she tried and she smiled and she kind of spoke to the audience and said, you know, we’re all friends here, and we all. Because I know. Yeah, Shelley, we’re all here. And then she got into her stride, and because she was comfortable with what she was talking about, she was able to really sort of tell the stories and tell her journey and really connect with the audience. So that’s. That’s what’s important. You. You don’t want the audience to feel your nerves.

Jackie Goddard:

They want to go on that journey with you. They’re on your side. So it’s. It’s kind of your duty as a speaker to make your audience feel comfortable. So if you walk out and you’re excited, then your audience will be excited.

Anna Lundberg:

Yeah. Shelby did such an amazing job, and it was the story there. That’s such a good example. It was so relatable and engaging, and we were, as he said, on her side. That’s. That’s so nice. Again, a reminder to. Yeah, we’re sharing our stories, but we’re there for the audience, so to put that ego aside a little bit and, yes, humility, that, I suppose, look out into the dark audience and, you know, look for friendly faces.

Anna Lundberg:

But practise will help as well. Wayne, too, once you get into it.

Jackie Goddard:

Oh, yes. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you have to. You really do have to practise. There’s no getting away from it. It’s. You have to get out of uncanny Valley. You get to that point where you kind of, you know it, but it’s still sounding monotone.

Jackie Goddard:

You can still see the words in your head on the piece of paper or whatever. You need to get past that. Get to a point where I like to say, you memorise, to improvise, so you get to a point and you’ll know about. Yeah, you’ll know about improvisation is once you know something so well. And this is what I used to love about acting, is once I knew my part, then you can play. You can kind of, you know, add stuff in. You don’t get thrown so easily. Not that I added in any words, of course, when I was acting in.

Anna Lundberg:

Shakespeare, you’re adding in a better job than he can.

Jackie Goddard:

Not allowed to do that. But, yeah, get to a point where you know it so well, you could say it backwards in your sleep.

Anna Lundberg:

Yeah.

Jackie Goddard:

So that you can play and you can enjoy it. That’s. That’s when. That’s when you can really just relax with it.

Anna Lundberg:

And that, to me, reminds me, and it’s such a challenge for me. I think. I always think that I need to come up with something new. But actually, when I’ve seen good speakers and I just spoke to someone today who was saying the same thing, they kind of give the same talk, and again and again, you have your story and your message, and that is your sort of TED talk. That is, you go into different stages, different people each time, but you’re telling that story and of course, you can tell in different ways and you can add things. So I think that’s hugely helpful to become, to get to that point, as you said, to be so comfortable with, rather than if every single presentation is brand new and there’s totally new stories and new information, it’s just making your life very difficult, isn’t it? So I think as hard as it is to sort of narrow down that topic and stick with something, I think that’s what happens to myself and to others. To keep things simple. Find your kind of flagship story that you want to tell.

Anna Lundberg:

Just keep telling it.

Jackie Goddard:

Yeah. Find the stories that are at your core, because, you know, you might have a story bank so that no matter who you’re speaking to, you’ve got a story that kind of illustrates that point.

Anna Lundberg:

Nice.

Jackie Goddard:

Yeah.

Anna Lundberg:

I can selfishly talk to you for forever, but both for the sake of the audience and above all for you, Jackie, I want to round things off, but where can we find out more about you? Where’s the best place? I’m going to definitely link to this article, which I’m sure people are eager to read more about, but where’s the best place to follow you?

Jackie Goddard:

My website is www. Dot powertospeak dot co dot Uk. And everything’s there. That article will go up as a blog eventually. It’s not out there yet, but I’ll get that on now that I’ve spoken to you. It will definitely be out in the next couple of days. Yeah. And link with me on LinkedIn.

Jackie Goddard:

That’s the place I hang out most. So, yeah, find Jackie Goddard power to speak on LinkedIn and come and find me there. And connect with me there.

Anna Lundberg:

Amazing.

Jackie Goddard:

I do have a newsletter as well.

Anna Lundberg:

Yes.

Jackie Goddard:

Yeah, I’d love to get people subscribed to my newsletter on the website or on the website. Yeah, you can find it on the website, sign up for it there. And that goes out every couple of weeks. And it, there’s always, I always write something in there that’s of value to some, to people that want to get in front of an audience. Plus it sort of links to the live podcast where I speak about speaking. So it’s, it’s all about other people that speak and, you know, their advice as well as my own.

Anna Lundberg:

Sounds like a great resource. So we’ll link to that as well, thank you so much, Jackie, for your generosity and coming on relatively short notice and for sharing your story. And best of luck with the next twists and turns in your build, your authority, and, yeah, looking forward to staying connected and hopefully seeing in person again.

Jackie Goddard:

Yes, that would be great. Thank you so much for having me on. I’ve really loved it.

Anna Lundberg:

Thanks, Jackie.

Jackie Goddard:

Thanks.

Anna Lundberg:

Perfect. Thank you. Great.

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