In this week’s episode, Anna Lundberg enters the complex realm of pricing for independent experts. Discover why aligning your pricing with your expertise is crucial not just for your bottom line, but also for your professional identity and positioning. This episode is a must-listen if you’re grappling with how to price your services effectively and confidently.

Key moments:

[00:00] Introduction to the episode’s theme on pricing

[01:00] The emotional journey of pricing

[03:27] Understanding how identity influences pricing

[07:17] The drawbacks of time-based pricing for experts

[09:29] Exploring value-based and outcome-based pricing models

[14:53] Impact of pricing on personal business growth and identity

Resources mentioned:

• The Intentional Business Audit: onestepoutside.com/intentionalbusiness

• The Business Accelerator Programme: Learn more about supporting your transition with this tailored programme and join the waitlist OneStepOutside.com/accelerate.

• Connect with Anna Lundberg: Reach out for personalised support (or message “PRICING” for a free pricing reflection worksheet) on Instagram or LinkedIn.

Pricing for independent experts

Oh, it’s a spicy topic today, pricing. Lots of emotions attached to this one. And I think one of the biggest challenges that we have as experts, whether we’re long in the game or not, whether we’re speakers or trainers, coaches, etc, it’s just so tricky and everyone has their methodology. I guess as an expert telling people there’s also the reality of what the market is telling you, there’s all sorts of, you know, mindset things like confidence imposter syndrome and so on showing up. So it’s quite a, yes, spicy thorny issue. But hopefully I’ll help you have a different perspective on I suppose not, not approach it with such fear and comparison and all these things that can really hold you back. And I guess already to say there is no right answer, the reality is going to be so much more nuanced. We can set minimum numbers, we can set goals that we want and so on.

But then behind the scenes we may well be much more pragmatic if we have you low cash flow and we just, we’re in a scrappy period and we want to just take work on or, or you might even take something for a lower fee or even do something for free if it is giving you something else like a testimonial or working with a big brand or leading to other opportunities. But I’m getting ahead of myself. So let’s take a step back and start with pricing. As I said, it’s so emotional, right? It’s not just a number on a proposal, it’s really a mirror. It’s reflecting how you see yourself, the role you Believe you play in that relationship and the boundaries that you’re willing to uphold. We’re not just talking about money here. We’re talking about identity, positioning and energy. So that probably explains why it’s such a thorny, controversial, I guess, issue loaded issue.

I’d say so I think, and, and I’m sure, I hope you haven’t, but I believe you probably have experienced the thought, oh, I’m just, you know, I’m, I’m not ready, I’m not confident enough to charge more. Or we say the number and then suddenly we go, oh, and that, that’s not right. And there are experts, I’ve heard people say, oh, write your number down and then triple it. And like, oh, I don’t like that doesn’t really work for me. Maybe for you, but not for me. Because pricing is much more than a mindset, right. As I said, it’s your identity, it’s a self concept. So if you’re seeing yourself as a doer, a helper, a service provider, that gives you sort of one set of prices.

On the other hand, if you see yourself and you step into the identity of being a strategic advisor, a trusted partner, a catalyst for change, can you see how that’s very different? So pricing reflects how you see your role in the room. It’s not about ego, it’s about taking ownership. And unfortunately, this is really a tricky transition for so many of us who have had this salary coming in every month. And some of us may have been good at negotiating, some of us less so, but even so, essentially there was a standard. I certainly, when I worked in corporate, there were very standard bands. And if you got a particular rating, if you had a certain level, there was a range at least, it was very clear the kind of salary path you could follow. And it wasn’t tied directly to whether or not you did a successful presentation today, to whether or not your social content was effective today, and so on. Right? You’re getting paid that for a job, sometimes you’re doing better, sometimes worse.

But I could be, you know, faffing about my computer and I’d still get paid. Not so in your own business. So it’s very much more tied to the input and output when you’re an independent expert. And because it’s often our own name, and if, even if it’s not, even if we’ve made up a business name as a solopreneur, as an independent expert, we are the, we feel like we’re selling ourselves. And that means every rejection is really painful. It Means I’ve got to charge my worth. Which is, you know, not a very useful recommendation, I’d say. So again, it’s that shift from being a corporate salaried employee to working for yourself is huge.

Never. As ever. It’s that identity as well, ridiculously, because you’ve been a senior vp, exec, whatever, in your corporate identity and somehow now you’re like, oh, can I charge this? And I don’t know. Now, some people don’t have this problem, but I think those people are not listening to this episode. So if you’re here, it’s probably a challenge that you’re experiencing. So look, let’s talk about hourly pricing and let’s not shame it because it has its place. There’s. There’s this kind of conventional wisdom or strategic recommendation, I suppose, that, oh, you shouldn’t be trading your time for money.

Yes, I mean, I agree and it’s definitely a trap. If we start saying, okay, my hourly rate is this, and say for three hours of a workshop, you pay this. No, but. Because what you’re missing there is that you’ve done all the prep, you’ve done, you know, all the setup, you’re travelling, maybe you’ve got the back and forth afterwards, additional recommendations and so on. Not to mention your two, three decades of experience that have led to these three hours. Right. So you know, you can already. There, see, that doesn’t quite make sense.

For senior experts in particular, it’s creating a couple of dangerous dynamics. The first one is, and this is the key one really, for me, it penalises efficiency. I’m very sorry, I don’t want to shame lawyers and I’ve never been a lawyer, but from the outside looking in, my understanding is that you get paid hourly and so the longer things take, the more you get paid. Now, I don’t know about you, but as a client, that’s quite frustrating. And as the expert, that means that the better I am, the less I’m going to earn if I can. The example that comes to mind for me is I, as a non graphic designer, if I charge you for the time it would take for me to come up with a pretty rubbish logo, let’s say, and you’d be paying me a whole lot more than an expert graphic designer who could mock something up that would be amazing in a really short space of time, and that’s probably not a good way to be. So really, pricing by the hour is penalising efficiency. And I think that’s a kind of a case you need to make to clients who ask you for that as well.

It also potentially might scope creep if they’re buying out is they just feel entitled to fill them. Right. So even if there’s no work like what can you do? And energetically this is keeping you in that employee mode that you’re just kind of, you know, a glorified not even employee without the benefits of having pensions and team celebrations and whatever else. You’re being hired for your time rather than for your thinking. And that’s not where we want to be. Okay, so okay, time based. It’s a good place to start. Maybe for junior, for transactional work or whether scope really is open ended and you just cannot work out what it would, you know, what time it would take.

And it was like, okay, certain number of hours and we can adjust that or you know, we talked about fractional work last week to some extent. It’s not hourly, but it’s certainly time based because you’re like okay, two days a week. So that’s time based. Value based is interesting because it’s based on what the work means to the client. Right. That can be really useful for strategy, for advisory, for retained roles. I am wholeheartedly behind that. That said, it’s really difficult to put a number on that.

Right. And it’s easy if I don’t know if the risk to the company is X financial amount or the benefit would be this or you know, that’s sort of okay. Yeah, that’s huge. Because if you know that, say if I’m helping them as I did as a consultant early on, launch a whole new website, e commerce and so on, that’s a huge new revenue stream. Obviously it wasn’t just me, it was the whole team. But then you can think of the millions that they would be bringing in as a result. So then your little fee doesn’t really feel like a huge amount. Right.

It’s really thinking about the value. It’s harder if you’re thinking more about, oh, I’m coaching them on, you know, being happier. Oh, that’s huge. That I would say is, you know, priceless, but it’s harder to put a value on that. But certainly the intent of the value based pricing is the right one. And then outcome based, obviously if you can tie prices to results then that’s really powerful. And it means that there’s kind of control and accountability on both sides. But it’s not about finding the right, the one right way at least to price right.

It has to be choosing a model that aligns with the role that you Want to play? Are you so sure of your results that, you know, I can definitely help you lose this weight or get that many clients and, you know, money back. If I don’t, then by all means there’s an outcome based promise you can make there. If, you know, if you’re really worried that there’ll be, you know, I just don’t know how much time this is going to take and I want you to pay me by the hour, then by all means you can go time based. But what I want you to do is really think about what the right model is. Don’t just default to something because that’s how it’s done in the industry or that’s what the client asks for. And look, let’s name some of the reasons why even senior experts might undercharge. It only took me an hour. Yes, but it took you 10 years to know how to do it in an hour, right? It’s the classic analogy of the plumber who comes and fixes the leak in two minutes.

It’s like, I’m not going to pay you £200 for that. It’s like, yeah, but it took me, you know, 20 years to know how to fix the leak, right? To what pipe to do what with or whatever. So, yeah, it only took me an hour. That’s not, that’s not, that’s not the vibe. As I’ve started saying recently, they don’t have budget. Okay, maybe they don’t have budget. Maybe they do and they’re just not seeing their roi. Maybe they’re just negotiating with you.

Or maybe they’re not the right client either because they actually don’t have the budget. Or again, they don’t see the value that you’re providing. You’ve done everything right and they’re just not the right fit. Or, oh, I’m still figuring it out. I should just be doing it for free. I can’t possibly. I need to do a beta version. Okay, fine, you’re early on.

But let’s say as a coach, you may be new as an independent coach, but you’ve been coaching people for again, years, decades in your corporate work. Right? You can be in growth mode and still be building things and still hold strong boundaries and know the value of what you’re providing. Pricing discomfort, again, isn’t about money. Right? It’s often about rather not yet, feeling comfortable with, confident with claiming your full authority. And that’s something we need to work on. Also thinking about the, the actual work you’re doing, and this is a hard one we tend to just sort of latch onto the deliverables. Right. So.

So that’s documents and the number of sessions and you know, in the coaching course, but especially at the beginning, I would say a free discovery call, let’s say. Yeah, yeah, you get this many numbers, you know, hours of coaching and that ties you of course to hourly prices because the client will go, hang on a second, six hours for £3,000. That’s, that’s crazy. But it’s not about the hours. Right? As we’re saying, it’s not about the documents and the sessions. Why do I care that you’re going to give me a 12 page PDF or a, you know, three PowerPoint, whatever. I’m paying for strategic clarity, faster decisions, less confusion. You know, the right strategy for is I’m paying for momentum, knowing what to do next, why I should be doing that thing.

There might be emotional energy savings. Right. It’s not as frustrating. I don’t have to carry everything alone. All these things are invaluable, but also in a, in a more tangible way. We need to. And I’ll mention Jessica Lorimer, who has a selling to corporates programme. She always talks about the so what? Or so that.

So the classic, I don’t know if I’m a copywriter, it’s not like, okay, pay me to write copy. Yeah, so what? The copy is going to be compelling copy that attracts and converts the clients so that you make more money, grow a successful business, etc. Right. So the outcome, I was doing a proposal the other day for an executive coaching proposal. A proposal for. Proposal for an executive coaching client engagement. And what you need to realise is, of course, in that case, if it’s the company hiring you as a coach for someone else, the benefit is not just, oh, they’re going to feel more self aware and confident, so. And no, the benefit is for the company, the roi.

They’re investing because this is going to save them costs in having to onboard another person or hire a new person or lack of loss of productivity because they’re not working effectively or that person. Yeah, that person is going to affect the morale of the organisation or they’re going to leave for another job and so on. Right. So really thinking anchoring the benefits, not just the features as we talk about in product terms, really anchoring in the benefits and the ROI for the decision maker, not just the recipient. Likewise, you know, an example we often talk about is, you know, women’s leadership programmes. For example, the workshop and coaching might be for the women, but the proposal that you’re writing the price is for the company and there you need to talk in slightly different terms than for the individual who’s the recipient of your training, let’s say. But really pricing, you know, it’s telling a story. It’s really reflecting your positioning.

Are you kind of the optional, nice to have. Oh, yeah, we could do that. Or are you an expert that they’re actually building a plan around? This is a core part of our way forwards. It’s not about pricing high just for the sake of it. Um, but if your presence in the business really is going to change things, then your price should reflect that. You’re not just like, oh yeah, everybody should have a coach or oh, I might do a bit of social media stuff. No, you’re going to change how they do business, let’s say. Right.

And we really need to believe that as well for this to work. So some of the practical shifts you might consider, and this I think is in my book actually outside the 9 to 5. And it’s in the business of academy too, as an exercise. But there’s some maths we can do to really arrive at a minimum engagement threshold. And that is kind of a, an hourly rate. But it’s not to say that you’re giving that hourly rate to the client. It’s just to say that you need to know that in order for this even to make sense, in order for me to say yes, I need to be earning this amount per hour or this amount per day. And that has to be a factor of how many days, weeks, hours you’re working in a year.

Considering also that, you know, anything from 30% to 70% could be billable hours depending on your business model. So the rest is admin, accounting, marketing, business development and so on. But really arriving at that minimum engagement threshold, I will not do that, a one hour thing unless it’s at least. And I’m not going to put a number because that would put you either too low or too high. Doesn’t matter what my numbers are. If you are currently, you know, still stuck in hourly, then consider moving to tiered or package pricing, even for advisory, you know, so it’s really okay because for me, I keep going back to coaching, actually only because I just did this proposal. But I’m not too fast. If you want to do an extra call here or there, that’s fine.

For me, it’s that we’re getting you the outcome that you want. To be honest, more and more senior people want fewer and fewer calls. Right. They want effective Quick results. So again, if you can deliver something with fewer calls, that’s even better. If a personal trainer and nutritionist tells me, yeah, yeah, no problem, we can do like a 20 minute workout three times a week and get the results you want rather than, oh, it’s going to be really tough. You’re going to have to go to the gym two hours and like not eat at all. That’s, that’s not going to be so appealing.

So about you, so minimum engagement threshold. Move to tiered or package pricing and really anchor your fee to the values and outcomes, not the effort you’re putting in. By all means, yes. We need to know, okay, for that day’s workshop, it’s not just this is not my day rate, this is, it’s going to take me three days to create the content for it, plus the travel plus, etc, etc that needs to be factored in. But it’s not necessarily something you share outwardly with the client because then they’ll say, oh, you just do like two days of prep instead. And that’s not for them to decide. Yeah, and you can obviously, yeah, consider offering new types of programmes like a strategic, intensive or more project based work, but just making sure you define the value, not just the hours. And of course pricing isn’t static.

It’s going to evolve with your clarity, your confidence, your capacity. When you’re fully booked, you’re going to feel much better about raising your prices. If you’re in that sort of low cash flow state, you’re going to be a bit scrappy, have a bit less ego and go, yep, sure, no worries. I can do that for £200, whatever it is. Right, so, so that’s something to consider and it’s, it’s not something we should judge ourselves on. Final thoughts, you are not selling time, you are not selling deliverables. You’re selling perspective, experience, clarity. And your pricing isn’t just about what you’re getting paid, it’s about how you’re showing up.

So price like the leader you are, not the employee you used to be. If this resonates, if you want to chat about it, or as an initial step, actually, if you want a simple pricing reflection sheet that I put together, as well as that exercise I mentioned about doing a bit of maths on your numbers, then why don’t you, you can even email me podcastonestepoutside.com you can email me the word “pricing” and I’ll know what you’re talking about. Or you can message me on LinkedIn or Instagram just say “pricing” and I’ll ping you over those resources to get started. Or of course we can have a chat about your particular situation and how we can look at your offering and how we can elevate, if needed, your pricing so that you’re not feeling resentful. You’re working too much for too little reward because that is a killer. Thanks so much for listening and I’ll see you next week. Bye for now.

All right, so if any of this resonates and you’re ready to build a business that truly works for you, without the overwhelm, without the hustle, all that constant second guessing, then I’d love for you to join us in the business accelerator. I’m bringing together a small group of like minded experts, coaches, consultants, solopreneurs who want that personalised support, clear action step and above all, real accountability. If you want to get in early, then head on over to onestepoutside.com/accelerate to register your interest or join the waitlist. Let’s create the business and the life that you have always wanted. Can’t wait to see you inside.

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