In this week’s episode, Anna speaks to Cara Cunniff, military spouse turned entrepreneur and leadership consultant, who shares her unique insights into redefining success. Discover how her endurance challenges fuel her professional life and learn how she maintains work-life integration amid constant relocation. Tune in for lessons on resilience, leadership, and the essence of balancing personal ambitions with family priorities.

Key moments:

[00:00] Intro and Cara’s background

[00:37] Cara’s reimagining of success and career journey

[01:43] Endurance races and mindset in leadership

[02:59] Transition to Cara’s business ventures and family prioritisation

[05:37] Work-life integration insights and career model flexibility

[22:51] Discussion on remote and in-person work balance

[39:03] Conclusion and final thoughts

Resources mentioned:

• Connect with Cara Cunniff on LinkedIn.
• The Business Accelerator Programme: Learn more about supporting your transition with this tailored programme and join the waitlist OneStepOutside.com/accelerate.
• Connect with Anna Lundberg: Reach out for personalised support on Instagram or LinkedIn.

Building a business as a military spouse

Anna Lundberg:
Welcome to this month’s interview. I’m excited to be here with Cara Cunniff. She is another and apologies for saying that Cara, member of the Mic Drop community. So thanks again to Alex Mary for having curated such an incredible group of people and but Cara is also in a really interesting adjacent space to me with the leadership work she does. So super interested in the work that she does as well as her more personal career journey that we’re talking about today. So Cara, thanks so much for your time today and would you like to introduce yourself as only you can and let us know a little bit about your career journey so far.

Cara Cunniff:
So actually just to talk to your point on success and reimagining it. For me, when the moment I got married 30, oh 25 years ago, I then had to reimagine what success looked like. For me it was marrying into the military and really that was the start of my journey in terms of my business world and I now roll forward 25, 30 years. I have a business called Thrive, well global and I’m an emotional culture consultant for corporates. I work with fast growth organisations and in between all of that I’ve served in the British military. I’m an endurance athlete, a slightly injured one at the moment, but I’m an endurance athlete and I’m a mum as well. So you know, living in the real world like, like most of us.

Anna Lundberg:
Yeah. So much time back already. And before we go down the career route, what kind of endurance, endurance things do you do? What, what are the.

Cara Cunniff:
Well to be honest, I’ll have a go at anything but predominant and literally so escape from Alcatraz. So jumped off a boat next to Alcatraz and swam to the shore. So crossing what is in theory shark infested waters. I didn’t see any shark, but there are two tides you have to cross. So you know, swimming, getting to the first cross, the first tide before the. You’re then pushed out ultimately into the sea and there is a time band. So there is a pressure in there. It isn’t just a case of swimming merrily across the other side.

Cara Cunniff:
So things like, you know, escaping from Alcatraz and Ironman. So racing Ironman which for those who don’t know, maybe many people know nowadays, but Ironman triathlons, 3.8 kilometre swim, 180 kilometre bike and then a marathon. So Ironman and also ultra marathons. So the Marathon des Sa, which is six marathons in seven days across the Sahara Desert carrying everything except for water. So I’ve Had a go at everything and it’s what I think, it’s actually what keeps me alive. I am a competitive person. I’m not necessarily competing on the longer ones for time. I’m actually competing against myself just to get to the end.

Cara Cunniff:
But when it comes to shorter races, and I say shorter, like marathons in their own right, then, you know, I, I do like a bit of competition.

Anna Lundberg:
My goodness, I’m in complete awe. And I would talk the whole podcast just about this. Escaping from Alcatraz sounds amazing. I’ve taken the little tourist boat over there, very control circumstances. I haven’t attempted to swim and maybe I’m kind of happy with my half marathons, but I’m definitely, I always say on this and I probably at some point need to hold myself accountable to being a bit more adventurous again, having had also young children and so on and maybe settled a little bit too much into my comfort zone, so. Well, definitely, yeah, maybe not the Marit de Sable, but I’ll certainly explore something a bit further, maybe a trail run or something like that. But I love that. That’s incredible.

Anna Lundberg:
And that must really feed into the work you do in leadership and so on as well, right?

Cara Cunniff:
Yeah, absolutely. Into performance, particularly understanding where mindset sits in that, you know, that space when, when you know, particularly from an endurance space, when you believe you can’t go any further and you can’t do anymore. And it’s really difficult, it’s really tough, you know, and we can replicate that within organisations, we can replicate that within business. When things are, you know, you’re juggling, you’ve got the plates going in the air because there are so many things to do and you’re feel sense of overwhelm, you know, really looking inside yourself and working out what is important, what is important in that particular moment. That’s going to just keep you one step, then another step and then another step, not, not the great chunk of the next for me, you know, kilometre or, or the next three kilometres or another night, you know, but what is actually just going to get you to take that one step further forward?

Cara Cunniff:
So, you know, within the business context, as a leader, you know, what is that one thing that you can do that’s going to, that’s really going to move the needle in the right direction. And maybe that’s as simple as having a really good conversation with somebody that, you know, you need to have.

Anna Lundberg:
Gosh, that’s so, so profound already just thinking about that in terms of a race, I suppose you haven’t made the choice to sign up to this particular event, for example. So when you’re at your lowest point of it, you need to remind yourself of the bigger why, as you say, thinking about, okay, I can’t think, I’ve got to run another marathon or whatever at the end I’ve got to go, right, what’s the next step now I’ve got to cycle this. I’ve got to put one step in front of the other. There’s so much and you are just with yourself, aren’t you in these things. It’s such an individual mindset game. And so that’s, that’s super interesting. I do want to come back to the career choices, talk about the endurance. We’ll come back to at the end when we talk work life integration as well.

Anna Lundberg:
And, but I’m really curious. I don’t think we’ve had someone who have said that the sort of reimagining of success happened when you married into the military. So I’m curious about that. So how did you start your career? How did you view success, success then? And what was it about marrying into the military that shifted things for you?

Cara Cunniff:
So I wanted to be CEO of bt. Okay, that was my goal. That was my, my, I, I have a business degree and I studied business in my, for one of my A levels and it, you know, it was clearly always a passion and I also was really passionate about change and doing things better and improving things. And to give you an example, it’s slightly, slightly off centre example, but I would go to the pub and I would see the barman behind the bar and in this particular instance it was a bar man and, and I would see him pulling a pint, pouring a glass of wine and then waiting for whatever other pint was still coming out, being poured. And forgive me for not having the, the proper language, I never work behind a bar, can tell but waiting for another drink to finish and I would be standing there actually getting a bit frustrated, feeling frustrated because I’m like, but you could be tallying up my order at that moment in time. You could be, you know, maybe starting to talk to somebody else about what they, you know, wanted to have for their order. So efficiency has always been at the heart of who I am and, and therefore from that, you know, productivity and business. So after my business degree I, I started off working for, for one of British Telecom subsidiaries, a company called Syntegra Systems Integrators.

Cara Cunniff:
And I went after a year year or so I moved into change management and I started off in that space and I, I, I, I actually in that moment had a, I was quite disillusioned by one of, was actually a little bit of a bully and I, throughout the course of the following year felt smaller and smaller and smaller and we, I had started in the organisation, as I said, wanting to be CEO of bt, you know, I was so driven. But that is what happened in that disconnected period was I just lost sight of that ambition and that dream. And I think looking back, that was that, that is one of the, the reasons why I ended up leaving Syntegra. When my husband got posted to Germany, we had to make that decision. Is this, is this a, you know, a life decision? We’re getting married, but am I going to move around with you or am I going to stay put and I’m going to continue my career now? At the time it was very unusual for spouses not to, Am I getting this right way around? Not. It was normal. It was usual, yes, it was usual for us to follow our husbands at the time, more, more men than women. So I, you know, I’m not speaking sort of out of turn in terms of language because that, that is how it was.

Cara Cunniff:
And I decided that I wanted to support my husband. He’s, he’d always supported me in all of the decisions I’d ever wanted to make. And so I decided I was going to go to Germany with him and we moved to Germany. And it was in that moment I had to make a decision. You know, I’ve left this corporate career in change management, which I actually loved. I really, really did love that space because it was all about making work better. Ultimately, that’s what it was about, making work better. And I moved to Germany and thought, what, what, what am I going to do? What, what, you know, what does this mean? What does this look like for me? And actually I ended up starting a shoe shop in the middle of British forces Germany, serving 25, 000 military families, selling a black start, right, school shoe.

Cara Cunniff:
It was a need. And in Germany, children don’t wear school uniform, but British children at the time did wear school uniform and you couldn’t buy a black school shoe. And, you know, I would come home with hundreds of ideas. My husband say, no bad idea, no bad idea, no bad idea. And then suddenly went, oh, good idea, good idea. So that’s where the shoe shop was born. And that was a business that I sold. So that was very, that was very gratifying, very rewarding knowing that all that work that, that I put in, it was a small business.

Cara Cunniff:
But all that work that I put in paid off. It was really useful service, it was needed, it was sought after, it was valued by those who used it and somebody saw enough in it to pay me money to buy it and that was really, really rewarding. So for me that was success in that moment, just that someone else saw value in the work that I had done and that was, that was a game changer. And it was in that moment that I then took up Iron man because we then moved back to the UK and we were only coming back for one year. And it was in that one year that, you know, having worked for myself in all sorts of realms, really, in all sorts of realms, you know, wedding planning, event planning, but, but all with a heart of connection, actually I, then my husband said, you’re going to be a nightmare if you come back and you have nothing to do. And I, at this point, I had three small children, so, so if that wasn’t enough, I needed that extra balance which was about what can I do that’s going to give me the fix that I need every day. You know, I love being a mom, I love my children, but I also need something and if it’s not my business then I need something else. And that’s where, you know, talking again to your reimagining, what am I going to do for myself? Well, I’m going to race Ironman.

Cara Cunniff:
I don’t have a bike, I’ve never ridden more than 20 kilometres. But nine months later I completed my first Ironman and I’ve been very, very fortunate that I’ve had a success network around me who have championed me and also that I have a very international family. So for me, moving overseas has always been, it’s been quite an easy. Easy is an interesting word. Not easy. It’s, it’s not been unusual, I think, for us to move. Although actually now I am on 32 house moves, so, so moving is something I know I don’t, I don’t particularly enjoy it, but it’s something I know. And again, it talks back to the connection piece.

Cara Cunniff:
You know, everything I do now in my business is about connection. It’s about, you know, is the business connecting to its teams? Are the, the employees, are your people connected to the, the company values or are they just, you know, stuck on, on, on boards, in the reception area, you know, and, and I think that that’s been born about from very much, you know, moving so regularly and being forced to find out how to belong. Being forced, you know, how do I connect better with simple as the dentist, doctor and hairdresser. If you think on, you know, 32 house moves, how many dentists, how many doctors, how many hairdressers? And actually they don’t all speak English either. So having to find a way to use non verbal to bond, which is why I’m often seen smiling, maybe more than it actually, you know, that’s just struck me and sometimes, you know, that’s why I love these conversations because you, you’re always learning something about yourself and, and maybe that’s why I can often be seen smiling because I, I wanted to integrate into environments where I don’t always speak the language. So I’ve had to find other ways to do it.

Anna Lundberg:
I love that how the personal experience and that change 32, did you say moves? Has really sort of fed into your professional story and the value you bring there. I mean the start, right shoe story is such a sort of a typical success story from the entrepreneurial perspective, right? You saw a problem, you found a solution and then you’ve sold the business, which is the dream. And you know, I’ve been sharing about Steve Jobs, the famous connecting the dots metaphor and now as you say, looking back, it makes so much sense and you can tell such a compelling, articulate story of why you’re the right person to speak about these things. I wonder as you experienced and especially as a mother with young children. My mum left Sweden and her career behind to move to have children in the uk. Husband was doing a high power job and she just had nothing, you know, and, and this idea of matrescence that we are more aware of now in terms of what happens when you become a mother. And so what, and how did you handle that sort of internally? How are you able to have the confidence, the resilience, the mindset to, to do all these incredible things that you’ve been doing through this tumultuous time. I suppose I think it’s because I.

Cara Cunniff:
Have always identified with what for me are the most important, three most important things that make me tick. And, and this isn’t in any order. They, they are, you know, family, family comes first always. And so family is, is one of them and that is extended family. You know, I have a brother in New Zealand, my mother lives in Spain, I’ve got, you know, a Persian uncle, I’ve got family in the States. So you know, family for me is also, you know, wherever we are at the time. And my children, of course, and, and my lovely husband, I didn’t count him in that one, but you know, he’s Been my bedrock in all of this. And being able to travel, that’s my second one.

Cara Cunniff:
Being able to travel, see the world, have adventures. So if I tick that, then I know I can get up every day with buoyancy. And the third one is business. It’s business. I want to make workplaces a better place to be in so that people within the organisation want to come to work on that Sunday night feeling, what do they feel? Have you ever asked them? Have you ever asked your staff what do you feel on a Sunday night and actually been open to the answers? And there is the other side of it is being open to those answers that you might maybe not be comfortable hearing. You know, those feelings may be positive, desired, those feelings may be undesired, but actually the conversation that’s born out of that space is what is really, really important. And so for me to balance, you know, business, travel, adventure and my family, my husband knows when we move house. Talking to your resilience point.

Cara Cunniff:
When we move house, I need a little bit of every single day. Even if it’s an international move, I need a little bit of every single day to focus on my business because it gives me energy and if I get that, then I can get back onto packing boxes or unpacking boxes or, you know, whatever that making baking butties for the packers so that you’re making sure that those three things are in balance is critical.

Anna Lundberg:
I love that self awareness and it reminds me of work I did and you know, you forget about these things sometimes and it’s part of my Academy course in terms of really laying the foundations for a career change. But it’s really think about sort of the different personalities, which sounds a little bit schizophrenic, you know, in terms of who’s inside you. But I always thought, you know, I have a free spirited adventure inside me. I have a confident professional businesswoman. There’s the nurturing mother, there’s the romantic lover, you know, there’s different sort of facets to you and I think really understanding sometimes it’s fine. The one kind of is a little bit more withdrawn as long as you’re doing that intentionally. But if you quash that spirit too long and I guess it’s that adventurous one that’s kind of cool. Or perhaps the business when, you know, when babies aren’t sleeping during the night and that kind of thing, you need to do what you need to do.

Anna Lundberg:
But I love having that awareness of knowing, as you say, what makes you tick to make sure that you’re not losing Yourself in the process and making sure that it’s, yeah, you’re keeping that going will be it in a small way and for that kind of balanced and more meaningful version of success.

Cara Cunniff:
Absolutely. You know, the, the, the energetic feeling, you know, what, what gives you energy as a person and identifying those things that give you energy as well as what takes away energy from you, you know, and again you, that’s, that’s part of the piece I do upfront with organisations is, is about the energy, emotional connection. Because when you come to work and maybe you’ve got some conflict or joy, maybe, maybe you’ve just won a really big contract, what is that going to do to the energy in that space? You know, what do mood swings do to energy within the, the workplace? You know, all of those are really important things to consider and I think, you know, when you’re talking about young mothers, it’s important to understand it talks to a few things, it talks to psychological safety, it talks to, you know, the well being piece. You know, when you’ve got new mothers and you know, toddlers, you know, those times when it’s very, very all consuming. It’s important to take care of your body budget. You know, are you eating, are you drinking, hydrating, you know, enough water? I’m, I’m, I have my water sitting here. Yeah. But I have to set alarms to take it because I don’t remember and I don’t particularly enjoy it but I know it’s good for me and I know it has a direct impact on how I’m feeling.

Cara Cunniff:
So, you know, for those that, you know, for organisations it’s important to consider, you know, are your people ticking these boxes really well? Are you helping them tick these, these boxes really, really well so that when they come to work they can put their best foot forward and feel good in the space that you’re bringing them together into work. And I think that’s, you know, I think now, particularly with the return to office that is happening with a lot of organ, you know, the larger organisations, we do need to consider how we can ask employees to come back to work in a way that they feel that they want to be there. And you know what, it’s asking difficult questions. You can crack whips. Absolutely. You can crack whips. You know, we’re seeing a lot of this in, across the world at the moment where, you know, whips are being cracked and people are just being told how it’s going to be done. That, that in my opinion isn’t necessarily going to achieve long term success.

Cara Cunniff:
You know, and that’s what we’re looking for. We’re looking for, you know, long term measures here where people want to be at work. You know, with the, with the introduction of AI, you know, there is fear, there is fear that, you know, will my job still be here? So are we having these real conversations that begins with how you feel that’s.

Anna Lundberg:
A majority perspective on obviously the return to office hybrid stuff happening is kind of a change management process. And think about in that way and the impact that it has on the people who you’re telling to do certain things. And as you say, compliance is nowhere near the same as commitment and engagement and so on. And then the other piece which really resonates, which, which is so important, I believe, and I know a lot of us share this now is, is, and it sounds so cheesy, but bringing your whole self recognising that we’re human beings, a mother of a young child, you know, someone struggling with mental health, whatever it is, to recognise that it’s absurd to kind of try to separate. I don’t know if you’ve seen the series Severance on Apple TV at the moment, which is really. Someone’s taken like the extreme cafqueous kind of version of what work life separation could possibly look like. And in a way it’s kind of what we have been asking people to do for so many years. I’m conscious that this is again a whole topic that I want to talk to you about and I am going to separate, separate this because I want to talk to you about this in a more professional capacity, however, and coming I guess to the work that you’re doing.

Anna Lundberg:
For the perspective of this podcast, there’s obviously so many different ways of working, people working fractionally as experts, consulting, coaching, training. What does that look like for you? How are you? What is your business model essentially, is what I’m asking.

Cara Cunniff:
So my business model is very flexible and it’s very flexible because I want to be able to support my husband in his career and his career is, is almost static at the moment in, in France and he has a, a career that means we entertain a lot and we do a lot of evenings, we do a lot of going to functions, we do a lot of again, connection. You know, it’s within the diplomatic space. So we have a, we. We’ve actually got a dinner for 12 tonight here, which, which we’re hosting. So I purposely have chosen a career and a model that is, is flexible. It suits me. So that means I might be delivering online my children are at boarding school in the uk. So if I’m back in the UK I will tend to package up pieces of work so that I can do that.

Cara Cunniff:
You know, maybe if I’m over for a week I can hold meetings, run a workshop, run a masterclass. It might be evening work but whatever, you know, that looks like. And some of the work I do is delivered in workshop face to face format and then the check ins that happen afterwards are delivered online so that. Well actually I think that works really well for, not just for myself, but that works really well for the organisation because you know, bringing people together is not that easy. Now that we do have, you know, a really global market, sometimes it’s really useful to get people together for a day because connection is beautiful when we are together. You know, when we do have conversations and there is energy, even if it’s not always your thing, there is energy that comes out of that space for all parties involved there. And. But also the reality is we’re living in a world where, where you know, this team may go back to the UK and you know, spread their wings.

Cara Cunniff:
So, so you know, the work I do works to also the fact that we do need to keep this, this success being sustainable and we need to have check ins, particularly when emotions are involved. Because, because you know, if you’re thinking about a change programme, you know, one week to the next, one week to six weeks, one week to, to six months, you know, a team is going to do this, that’s just the way it is. So it’s about being able to check in in a way that works to, to supporting the team being continuously change ready. So you know, in answer to your question, it’s flexible.

Anna Lundberg:
Flexible but very intentionally created. And what I love about that is demonstrating first of all, as we can see, you’re ambitious and you’re doing all this crazy endurance stuff and you have a family. So I love, it’s very inspirational and, and reassuring that we can balance these things and support your partner and to have that flexibility. But that doesn’t have to mean that like oh, I’m just doing a bit of coaching on the side and so. And you’re still making a massive difference. And in fact as you say, and I see the same for this sustainable success, it works really well for them to have the combination of in person and then remote a lot of training anyways, moving to virtual. So, so why wouldn’t that work? So I love that you’re able to design a really unique business model that works for you. Your personal preferences Your family and that works really well for the organisations that you’re choosing to work with.

Anna Lundberg:
I think that’s really powerful and I.

Cara Cunniff:
Think one of the really rewarding things I see is that military spouses, it is now usual, it is usual for a military spouse to have a career and, and I champion that so wholeheartedly. You know, looking back 25ish years ago, you know, I was on my own, literally, you know, there were a couple of us, there was some vocational. I remember when we were working, I was living in Maidstone and we had a. Probably about a hundred spouses and this was during Telek, it was, it was during the Iraq, Iraq two war. And there were, there were vocational spouses, so teachers, doctors, nurses, you know, specialists who had trained for years to, to become whatever it is that they were working in, in that specialist space, but there weren’t many entrepreneurs. It just wasn’t a thing. And I think at the time I felt very isolated, but actually roll forward now, I’m just, just think it’s so amazing that, that military spouses are working and, you know, hold their own space and are still able to support king and country, which. I always get choked when I say that because it, you know, it is important to me.

Cara Cunniff:
Gosh, it’s funny and it catches me when I don’t quite expect it, but, you know, it’s, you know, it is important me for me to do that, to support my husband in, in that space. So it’s just great to see military spouses doing that.

Anna Lundberg:
I love that. And be able to do that, as you say, without compromising on your own personal ambitions and personal family priorities as well. That’s lovely to see and clearly means a lot to you in terms of, I suppose, especially when you’re moving around a lot and so on. How do you get clients is always a question people ask. But how are you building your personal brand and network, even in that flexible way? I suppose it’s always interesting to hear.

Cara Cunniff:
I have tried everything, I have done everything, I’m sure like lots of entrepreneurs and I now endeavour not to touch the next shiny new bright thing that, that’s also something that I’m, I’m, I’ve been known to, you know, the next thing, what’s this? What’s that? But actually now what I, what I do is I tend to focus on LinkedIn and building connections through LinkedIn and it’s not always easy because if you don’t know that person in an organisation, how do you ask those questions? That doesn’t sound you know, pitchy or you know, when you genuinely just want to know. Could you just give me a hand here? I just want to know who might I be the person to speak to? And I, and I’m now thinking, strange as it may seem actually about going back to pick up a phone again. I know that that thing that if I mentioned using a phone to my children, they’d look at me in horror. What you mean actually speak to someone? Mummy. So I’m considering that now as a, as a, not a, not a shiny new thing, something that’s been around a long time. But you know, it’s, it’s, it’s building real connections again primarily for me through LinkedIn.

Anna Lundberg:
I love that. And LinkedIn of course is the best platform at the least at the moment in terms of the professional platform, in terms of the organic reach you get. Although we’re very familiar with the painful quirks of the algorithm rhythm and the explosion of content, I guess with AI and so on. But I love that thinking a bit more sort of the personal connection again. I really think, especially with AI, having these types of chats, albeit not completely in person, having phone calls, speaking is something that’s going to, you know, you’re a real human being with flesh and blood and I think that’s going to really help you stand out versus unfortunately sort of the online world of bots and so on. So I think the combination of the two is really, really powerful and I love that. Not being afraid of the ask as well and just being curious and not pitchy or pushy in any way but just, you know, this thing that could help some people do you know, someone who, and that’s, it’s the basics, isn’t it? But it, but it makes all the difference.

Cara Cunniff:
I think also community, I think, you know, these connections are having these, these human conversations but being surrounded by like minded people. You know, we’ve spoken about the mic drop community, you know, it’s very engaging, very supportive. Alex is brilliant, Livy’s brilliant, you know, and, and actually, you know, we’re all supporting positively each other and that’s based on trust and trust comes from conversations, you know, and Even if they’re WhatsApp conversations or their conversations within an online community, you know, there is a, there is a real, from my perspective, and of course I’m talking from my perspective, but I think I speak for a lot of people, you know, there is a real trust there that we’re all in it to, to do the right.

Anna Lundberg:
Thing by and I think that’s down to Alex and Livy really having curated that grief. I know they turn some people away and because I really think the calibre of people in there, as we can attest here on these calls, is incredible to hear the things that you’re doing and as you say that we’re all supporting each other. Everyone has more experience than something which is so nice. There’s a feeling of abundance that we can help each other and it’s not competitive in any sense. And obviously part of my sort of reimagining success is around work life integration and we’ve touched on that a few times now in terms of, as we said, having a business model that supports your vision of success, the flexibility, also being in integrity and, and doing what matters most to you, I guess. Do you have a kind of typical week or, or month or year? Do things shift a lot? What, how do you manage that? Do you have certain hours you do don’t work? Sort of take us behind the curtains of Cara’s working schedule.

Cara Cunniff:
So I, I mean I am, I am my, in some respects I am my own worst nightmare. Because I have to manage my diary then really, really well. As you will recognise earlier when, when sometimes in my diary because two time zones, occasionally a diary will appearance will appear in two different time slots. So I have to be really on it that, that, that’s just a fact. But if I want to do that other stuff then I, I, I don’t tend to plan more than three weeks out unless it’s for a, a, you know, a, a programmed client where I know that it’s every Thursday for the next six months or I know it’s every every Wednesday once a month for the next year, in which case that’s fine, you know, and I can block it in. And, and so it is just being really on it with the diary and being, and I think, you know what it being kind to myself and sometimes saying no, which I’m not very good at. I, I like, I just like doing everything and I like to have fun and I like to support my husband and I want to say yes to everything, but sometimes that just doesn’t work. And so taking myself back to what are the most important things, you know, what is the most important thing that’s either going to move the needle forward in terms of business or it’s the most important thing for my family in this moment.

Cara Cunniff:
That’s what I have to do. And I think the last thing is, you know, not being afraid sometimes to, to reschedule. You know, sometimes to say, you know what? I’m not in my best place today and I’m, I’m going to, you know, and obviously, you know, with, with client work, that’s not possible, but if there is something that you, you know, that you’re going to show up to and you’re not, for whatever reason, in your best form, you know, ask the question, you know, and I ask myself those questions. Should I be there? Am I going to be kind to other people in terms of my presence if I’ve got too much going on? So, you know, being able to say no and, and at times if it’s appropriate and okay to, to reschedule.

Anna Lundberg:
And that’s great. To be in a position where you feel confident enough and have the faith, you know yourself well enough and also you know that the work, there will be more. Right. I think sometimes we get into that sort of dark space and the, the famous income roller coaster where you think, I’ve got to say yes, what if there won’t be any tomorrow? And kind of being able to sit with that and trust that there will be more, I think is, is, is a game changer because you have to take care of your health, you have to take care of your family, you know, you need to, you don’t necessarily need to run ultramarathons, I’m going to say, but if you want to, then by all means, you know, I think that also helps perhaps to have those big passion projects and things, because that means that that by definition takes up a chunk of your calendar. Right? So you couldn’t work 247 because you have children, a partner, a training programme to follow for your next event.

Cara Cunniff:
I think I recently got, I was told a story about, we were, I was discussing with a colleague the number of women, you know, very, very senior women in organisations. You know, male versus female is in essence, and, and whether we want to use that versus word does depend on, on how we’re talking about it, I think. But I, I, I heard of a story of somebody who was very, very, very female, very, very senior, who had backups, two or three backups for child care because she could never ever not be in that meeting because she was competing and never wanted that. Oh, you’re the mother, you know, your child’s sickness, you know, you need to stay home and, you know, what does a child need when they’re, when they’re sick? They want their mum or their dad or their granny around, you know. So actually, for me, you know, that, that really hit home where I thought, gosh if I have to have backup after backup because I have to be in that meeting, you know, the world doesn’t stop going around, you know, we are only here once. That meeting will still happen whether I was in it or not. And I think we have to recognise that, you know, our own vulnerabilities in this and, and our own fragility in, in our life. You know, we are only here once we get one chance.

Cara Cunniff:
So, so actually, if you know what’s important to you, and maybe that is your, your number one, and, and I, and there’s no, that comes, doesn’t come from a place of judgement because, you know, we all have different, different values and different priorities. So if that’s your number one priority because you believe that’s maybe what you want your children to aspire to, great. It’s not mine, you know, mine would be always to be there for my child. And so, you know, I think, I think it comes back to that priority piece again. You know, what is most important to you and are you really clear about that? And when you, when you get to the end of your life, you know, are you going to look back and say, gosh, I went, I’m really glad I went to that meeting.

Anna Lundberg:
I mean, yeah, you’re speaking my language and, and I saw someone boasting the other day, speaking of LinkedIn about answering their phone and emails while on the day their child was born. And in fact, funnily enough. Well, funnily enough, but my mum tells the story of how when she had my sister on that day, you know, my dad said, oh, hello, very nice to meet you, little baby. Now I’m off to this board meeting. Bye, bye. And my mom thought, oh, wow, okay. Feminism, you know, I’ve been told a lie, actually. Men and women are a little bit different because of course, there’s no way she, having just given birth, could have.

Anna Lundberg:
I mean, you hear the stories of women who are, you know, signing things and so on in, in the labour room and so on, but it’s, yeah, there’s food for thought, isn’t it, in terms of what matters? And as you say, there’s no judgement and, and so on, but I think some of these people maybe will regret their choices further down the line. And if we can remember, it’s such a cliche, but as you say, life is precious, life is short. And some things, some people, some moments matter more than others. If we can try to hold that with us, even when we’re feeling a little bit insecure and, oh, I’ve got to say yes to this client and I can’t look like I’m prioritising my family. Oh, gosh, God forbid that we prioritise our loved ones and what matters most. So, Cara, gosh, again, I could talk to you for hours. I’m going to respect your time and the listeners, but thank you so much for sharing so generously of your time and of your personal story and your professional insights as well. And where can we find you if we want to learn more about the work that you do?

Cara Cunniff:
So LinkedIn, just find me on LinkedIn Cara Cunniff. Two n’s, two f’s, get all sorts of spelling, but it is C A R A C U, double N, I double F for Freddie.

Anna Lundberg:
We’ll definitely make sure the spelling is correct when we do the show notes. So thank you so much, Cara. Really exciting to continue obvious seeing how your journey evolves and seeing perhaps where the next move will be as well, the number 33 to maybe work together as well in the coming months. So thank you again so much and best of luck with your entertaining this evening.

Cara Cunniff:
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for this. It’s been a pleasure.

WORK WITH ANNA

Let us help you design a business and a life that gives you freedom from the 9 to 5. There are several options for how you can work with us. Choose the programme that’s right for you.

The Outsiders Business Accelerator

A mastermind for service-based business owners, freelancers and online entrepreneurs who are ready to achieve success on their own terms. onestepoutside.com/accelerate

The Outsiders Business Academy

A self-paced course for you to work through in your own time, to learn – and implement – the foundations of building a profitable business that lets you escape the 9 to 5. onestepoutside.com/course

1:1 Coaching & Mentoring

If you’re looking for one-to-one support to help you achieve your specific life and business goals, Anna has a limited number of spots for individual coaching and mentoring. onestepoutside.com/coaching